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Word on the street is that half a million “Israelis” have left since the start of the “war.” Why not just give the Gazans their now-vacated homes as a start?
For many Palestinians this would be a return to their original homes!
This sentiment is really common among the general American public, I've had this very talk with co-workers before. To them, it's a simple, logical solution that wraps everything up in a neat bow. How to I explain to them the fundamental unfairness of it, and that this "solution" is precisely what Palestinians and their Arab neighbors have been violently opposed to since the foundation of Israel?
Say that Ukrainians should do the same, then accuse them of being racist when they don't think white people should have to leave their country.
Except Russia doesn't demand that Ukrainians leave. IIRC, Ukrainian government complained last year about Russia giving citizenship to anyone with Ukrainian citizenship.
Okay but actually though I think I do apply this to Ukraine. Give all Ukrainians both Russian and EU citizenship, pro EU Ukrainians have the right to leave if don’t like a Russia-friendly Ukraine.
The most generous answer I can give for why Americans think that, since I’ve been sympathetic to it myself, is that Americans have no concept of connection to land.
If you told me today that I have to move states, or move to Canada or Mexico, or else my family will likely be murdered and our house burned to the ground, I wouldn’t even hesitate.
I’d be upset obviously, I like where I live and don’t particularly want to be forced out of it. But I’ve lived here for a year, I lived in other states for most of my life, moved cities within those states multiple times, and none of those places were where my ancestors further back than my grandparents had ever lived.
The idea of “This land is where my family has lived for thousands of years, I will risk death to not leave it” is not a familiar concept to Americans. Honestly I find it confusing on both sides, I can’t imagine killing or dying over something that feels as meaningless to me as land. “Who cares just live somewhere else” is an argument with some weight, although I apply it more to the Israelis obviously.
Is it the consequences of settler colonialism? Yes, but I don’t even think because it’s like, imposing settler values, but because it’s created a group of people completely disconnected from any sort of homeland. I grew up in a place I had no strong connection to where the environment itself is hostile to my existence because my ancestors evolved to live on a cold rainy island where you see the sun like twice a year and then they put me in the tropics where the sun stung my skin.
This is not to justify anything obviously just to try and explain why Americans don’t seem to think of relocation as that big of a deal as long as it ends the conflict.
Also as a side comment most Israeli settlers look similar to me complexion-wise and I can’t fathom why they would be willing to do all this for that land.
I feel similar about Israel as I feel about Florida. Like, setting aside the morality of mass murder for a second, you’re gonna do all that horrific work for this place??? The place where you can’t go outside half the year because the sun feels like knives?
You did mass murder to steal The Land That Gives You Skin Cancer. Like, I genuinely cannot fathom what would possess someone to be part of that project. You left Brooklyn for this?
You underestimate the strength of Property-Brain
You tell the average USAan that something belongs to them and that someone else has it and they will punch, bite and scratch to take it
Hell, look at the Southwest, it's literal desert and not only did we take it, we ship water in to grow grass to play golf
One of the biggest shows on TV right now is all about keeping land
Fuck, one of the spin-offs of that show is literally called Landman
Manifest Destiny is literally burned into our minds
What show are you talking about?
believe they're talking about Yellowstone, directed by Taylor Sheridan. His whole directorial output since Yellowstone, including two prequels, Landman, maybe Tulsa King as well, center around private property struggles and "expanding the frontier".
yellowstone
Considering how strong immigration was in affecting the last election though, you think they'd understand why making a million immigrants would be hated by both the people who want to leave and the nearby countries who would have to accept them.
you think they'd understand
You give them too much credit. Typical USians do not reflect on these things whatsoever, most only consider how things affect them personally. Such a strong culture of individualism does not breed empathy.
Hell, it even leaves many of them incapable of requesting or accepting help from others who are willing and even offering to help.
No. Someone was trying to explain to me why Israel was the righteous. They used the hesitancy of neigbouring Arab States to take refugees to justify the violence. "They dont even take care of their own". I think it had a kind of human shield inflection.
Cool. Ethnic cleansing.
This country does NOT fear hell.
Trump ignorantly demanding Egypt and Jordan break one of the ironclad laws of Arab bourgeois politics shows how much an unintentional wrecker of American empire he is
Egypt would literally rather invade Israel proper then accept even a 100,000 Gazans let alone half a million or whatever nonsense Trump has dreamt up
Sisi in the past has literally called the idea a "declaration of war on Egypt", when Trump speaks with Sisi I hope they piss each other off
I'm not too familiar with internal Egyptian politics, what are the implications of Trump pulling diplomatic and financial support for the current government? I recognize it as America shooting itself in the foot, but I don't see what any other leverage the state department could use.
Immediate Arab Spring, the country is a pressure cooker and it's gonna blow up eventually, but I doubt the Americans want to hand Hamas a massive rear base and Israel its greatest and most well armed enemy
On the flip side, the military will straight up put one in Sisi's head if he so much as signals acceptance of Trump's plan, Palestinian movement is the only true redline of the Arab comprador regimes and there is no compromise on it, they'd rather fight a hot war against Israel and the US
gosh Donnie nobody ever thought of that before, the zionists definitely didn't talk about this all through winter of last year
Yes but now Trump is saying it so liberals have permission to care now
And here's the catch. I didn't say anything before because i get how relieved people were over the truce and didn't want to piss on hexbear's hope for an end to the genocide, but you can't trust a Palestine deal brokered by Trump.
Like, I think most of us here were cognizant of that
But after 400 days of bloodshed, we were just happy to see anything slightly positive happen
Yeah, i get that. Things have been so grim that i didn't wanna spoil anybody's hope. But ... we've seen what Trump did to Palestine during his last term, we've heard how he talked about Gaza earlier in the war. This was always going to be just momentary maneuvering with the end goal to give Israel a short break before they continue extermination and displacement.
I think now we should be setting up people for what is certainly going to be a return to the violence
Preferably with the actual left in charge instead of mealy-mouthed Libs who are going to start wearing keffiyeh and watermelon pins and supporting Palestine just because Trump is maneuvering against it
I'm not sure that the liberals will oppose it even with Trump in charge.
No shit, but in the meantime 600-900 aid trucks are entering the strip every day and the bombs have stopped. Without this ceasefire I think literally everyone was going to either die of disease or starve to death before the winter was over.
Wao very astute observation.
Yeah good luck with that. Egypt and Jordan have been aggressively opposed to Palestinian refugees for the past 50 years, and that's just been the refugees or people crossing the border for other reasons. Remember, it's Egypt that controls the Rafah border checkpoint and they also control the wall with Gaza.
Jordan has similar but less aggressive security guidelines for keeping out Palestinians.
Egypt and Jordan have various economic and diplomatic goals there. I'm not too well versed on it, but it's probably because they have pretty normalized relations with the western powers, so their bourgeois class wants tighter security.
Like look at Lebanon and Syria. They're a lot more lenient on accepting Palestinians. Southern Lebanon has a huge Palestinian population and Israel just invaded them. So Trump is somehow gonna tell Egypt and Jordan to accept hundreds of thousands of people, which is something those two countries have spent 50 years of foreign policy trying to prevent? Yeah ok
I think Trump does not actually care about whether any country accepts Palestinian residents. He's creating a permission structure for Israel to continue bombing Gaza civilians. The article also mentions that Trump just approved more 2000 pound bomb shipments to Israel. When Israel starts dropping those 2000 pound bombs on civilians again, he's going to blame Egypt and Jordan for not accepting the refugees.
Here's my proposal, mr presinald drumf: Yeah it's a demolition site. So you know what? Let's rebuild the entire strip. Housing stock. Commercial. Local industry.
China has a really experienced construction industry. Let's pay them. In exchange they can manage a new cargo port. They can also station a single frigate there. Integrate this into Belt & Road.
Then the top 10 military spending nations each contribute a few billion to a permanent air defense system. A mix of permanent radar stations, fixed missile systems, as well as a well stocked MANPADs and mobile air defense. Then the top 10 each contribute some of their fighter stock as well as train Palestinians. Enough fighters are contributed until Gaza has an airforce the same size as Israel and will be permanently maintained as such.
There everyone's MIC gets some tasty contracts, the usual grifters can skim off the top, and Palestine gets a modern air defense force and the assurance of a PLA naval shield.
Genuinely if you actually want a stable two state solution this is how you would accomplish it
You’re talking about probably a million and a half people
Gaza population pre Oct. 7 was around 2.2 million. Guess this is some small confirmation that the death toll is around 700,000 people according to state dep intelligence.
What do you mean all the reputable news outlets keep saying only 44,000 were inconvienced. /S
it’s insane to me people kept repeating that number for over a year like israel hadnt been killing them by the hundreds daily that whole time. they really think it just magically capped out at 40k
Him saying this doesn't make Egypt or Jordan any more likely to acquiese, right? Because we've heard this rhetoric for a year and a half now
It actually would make Egypt and Jordan be mad at him since they hate the idea of taking in Palestinian refugees. Whether their own interests can win out over being American vassal states can only be speculated on though.
i am an egyptian taking this many refugees is an economic and social disaster for egypt it will also be seen as them giving up on the palestinian cause and would severely hurt the popularity of 2 already unpopular regimes
Jordan and Egypt should (and probably will) fiercely reject this idea, just like they did after Biden proposed billions for resettling Palestinians outside of Gaza. From Biden's ~$95B Oct 2023 funding request:
So we're just hearing something from Trump that Biden already proposed, but now it's an ethnic cleansing?
Ya nobody ever said that about Genocide Joe. Total double standard.
This has been the official US and Israeli policy for Palestinians since the creation of Israel , they're just not supposed to say it out loud like that.
"and we just clean out that whole thing and say: ‘You know, it’s over.'” A final solution, one might say
Here's the video. He even claims that the conflict of Israel-Palestine has gone on for centuries.
Journalist: Could you tell us about your call with the King of Jordan today please?
Trump: It was a very good call. He's a friend of mine. I know him very well. I've gotten along over the years very well and he's done a wonderful job. He really houses, you know, millions of Palestinians and he does it in a very humane way-- and uh I compliment him on that but he really... Jordan has done an amazing job of housing largely Palestinians and he's done it in a very successful--
Journalist: What was the subject of discussion? Was it-- ?
Trump: Pretty much that I said to him I'd love you to take on more, because I'm looking at the whole Gaza Strip right now and it's a mess it's a real mess.
Journalist: You'd like Jordan to house people from Gaza?
Trump: I'd like him to take people -- I'd like Egypt to take people and meeting with talking to uh General Sisi tomorrow sometime I believe and uh I'd like Egypt to take people and I'd like Jordan to take people. I could-- I mean you're talking about probably a million and a half people and we just clean out that whole thing. It's you know, it's over the centuries that's had many, many conflicts at that site and I don't know it's something has to happen but uh it's-- It's literally a demolition site right now almost everything's demolished and people are dying there. So I'd rather get involved with some of the Arab Nations and build housing at a different location where they can maybe live in peace for change.
Journalist: Temporarily or is it long term?
Trump: Could be either it could be temporarily could be long term go ahead
"you're talking about probably a million and a half people"
2.2 million in 2023, so you know, getting close to acknowledging how many people Israel has murdered.
He wants to clean out the ghetto? Alrighty, sure, nothing fucked up about that at all. 
Trade one rat for another
And we just ethnically clean out that whole thing and say "You know, it's a final solution."