Hi everybody!
I'd originally planned on having a big effort post, but I've had some Bad Brain^TM^ the last couple weeks so that'll just have to wait until next time.
In the meantime, it's my 2 year HRT Anniversary! These past couple years have also been the first time I've really been in community with other trans folx; I've had so many breakthroughs and discoveries of myself that I don't think would have been possible without that and I can't be thankful enough.
I hope everybody has a lovely week!
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Maybe you just have a naturally feminine vibe? Like your body language? When I started with my speech path, she identified areas to work on and those that needed less work. When it came to body language, she said there was nothing to do, my body language was already fully feminine. I know that this isn't directly voice-related, but it's still communication, and you could be blasting "FEMME FEMME FEMME" by the way you move and hold yourself, and this goes into the subconscious mental calculus of gendering someone.T puberty didn't make your vocal cords non-functional. I know training is a challenge for many many reasons, and the extra work we have to go to is bullshit, but many (probably most) of the trans women here went through T puberty and who trained that still achieved a voice they were happy with. I struggled with voice for years and I felt like you, that my starting pitch was too low/masc, and that it would be beyond my ability to get a normal femme voice. My goal pitch-wise was something like Laura Prepon because I couldn't imagine having a higher pitched voice then hers. Now I DO have a higher pitched voice than hers, pretty much just a standard female pitch. I know it seems insurmountable when starting out, but I promise you it is possible to train a passing feminine voice no matter where you're starting.
Also you can reclaim your singing voice too once your get your training on lock! It's not gone forever, you just have to rediscover it.
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Sorry I crashed and nappedI mean I guess maybe. I don't really buy that and its kinda whatever. If its not I'll work on fixing it at some point.
I guess I don't necessarily see fucked as being non functional. A phone with a shattered screen is fucked even if it still works. My point was that my actual vocal anatomy is permanently changed in a way I hate, it is sexually dimorphic. I literally don't understand what she was saying.
Thank you for validating the struggle. I'd summarize my struggle a bit differently, is less about where I'm starting from. My dysphoria is really bad and that keeps me from training. And I feel hopeless about achieving a voice I'd be happy with. I know most trans women train and maybe most of them are happy with their voices- I know this is shitty to say so I don't often but I have not heard many results I would be happy with. And so not only do I need to train, I also need to be in maybe the top 5% and that just feels super unachievable. I can't get myself to do it at all because of how dysphoric it is and I need to be one of very few. I don't care about passing, especially to cis people, I mean the whole reason I posted initially is apparently they can't listen to voices for shit.
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I'm sorry about your extreme dysphoria. I can see how that's a difficult problem. I was wondering about coming up with exercises to practice mouth movements, maybe get you to a place where you feel a manageable amount of dysphoria to start practicing from? I'm not sure about not using voice at all though. Like trying to learn guitar without plucking a string. Maybe you can wear noise-cancelling headphones so you don't have to hear your own voice as you practice? Then you can focus more on how it feels to do exercises instead of how it sounds.Just wondering why is it important to you to have a top 5% voice if you don't care about passing? Why would having a 5% voice make you happy?
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Thank you. Yea maybe I'll try practicing with my headphones on. I know it would be, it doesn't make sense to voice train without my voice... I just need to force myself to do it. Honestly even just thinking about it is making me cry. fml.Phrased myself badly again. I don't care about passing as a benchmark because cis people are very generous with it, they don't listen as closely or know how to clock voices or something. I've heard lots of women who's voices I wouldn't be happy with who say they pass. Its not enough for me. I need to be comfortable with it for me, I am more sensitive to it then most others are. I want to feel like I sound cis. And I feel like most trans women don't, at least to my ear. I've heard some voice coaches and women who sang through puberty and a few others who all sound really good.
I guess it would make me feel happy because I wouldn't be dysphoric about my voice anymore. I hate sounding like a man, I hate the idea of sounding clocky, even if its just clocky to me. I don't want to hear any fucking testosterone in my voice.
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I hope it'll become easier and less painful to attempt training over time.I understand now. I don't think clocky voice is something anyone is doomed to. I think it's either just a lack of enough training or a lack of understanding in training or missing voice components. I don't think you'll have to settle with a voice you don't want.
Totally get wanting an cis voice devoid of all masculinity.
Thank you Nemmy, I really appreciate you taking time and talking to me about this.
I hope so too. It has to.
Yeah any time
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The need you described is called perfectionism and its only going to hurt you. In voice training, in learning anything.It is a shitty attitude to think other peoples voices are clocky and therefore bad, and you know it is. I don't think this is what you really believe and you should interrogate this feeling because its a) not serving you and getting in the way of you training, which is making you miserable and b) you need to consider what a "clocky" voice that cis people dont notice actually means. I've met plenty of cis women and cis men with a "clocky" voice because voice isnt dimorphic and what is a masc or femme voice is socially determined. Its bimodal because yes sex hormones do play a role in the development of vocal chords as someone ages, but what a masc voice sounds like is determined culturally and it was trained into you by a social schema that likely included bullying and cruelty or just ambient oppression ("dont talk like that, you sound like a girl" etc as if its a bad thing).
The voice you want wasn't handed to you by puberty and an oppressive gendered social schema that didnt fit you like it was for cis women. You can change this - and the way you talk about how it makes you feel makes it seem vital and urgent that you start changing it. And maybe need to come to terms with being kinda okay or whatever while youre training - and that might start with loving other trans women when they aren't perfectly passing or at least yourself. Whoever is telling you that its impossible because of some genetics or phrenology or whatever, you need to get away from that space.
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I mean yea I am a bit of a perfectionist. But I'm also just really sensitive to sound and really dysphoric about my voice.It's not quite what I believe, true. Other people's voices are noticeably not cis (to me) and that is not what I want. At all. It's not inherently bad or anything. I really don't care what other people do for themselves personally. It is just not something I would feel comfortable with for me personally. There's lots of things other trans people want or are fine with that aren't for me. Even dysphoria specific things that I don't have or whatever. Hell people live their lives and drag queens, it's fine whatever just not what I want or how I want to be perceived.
It means I can tell/suspect their trans. Like I can tell their voice is a little strained, or it's "off" sounding. I can't exactly describe it. But it's noticeable and not what I want. It seems very, very hard to get a voice that doesn't have this quality. I also don't really understand what you mean about plenty of cis people sounding clocky- I've heard some cis women that do sound a bit off too but never cis men. I'm less good at clocking trans guys though (probably because T actually changes your voice, and I'm not a trans guy so idc as much). Although plenty of trans guys do still have clocky voices, mostly because they haven't been on it long enough or at a good dose.
It definitely is vital and urgent. I just feel like I can't get over the hump. I do love trans women who happen to have clocky voices/ones that I wouldn't be happy with. One particular poster who I very much loved had a completely untrained voice and I miss her a lot. I don't not love trans women just because they're voices don't pass to me and it makes me very sad I come across like that.