this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
195 points (100.0% liked)

news

23550 readers
1127 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Gaza has 2 million inhabitants, 42.3% of which are 14 and younger. Anyone else a little bit worried?

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 132 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

One of the most chilling things you realize as you grow up and attain even a degree of political and historical awareness, is that genocide is not just something that happens in the past. It doesn't happen because an evil army materializes and does bad things until the good guys save the day. It's something carried out, in the open, with the support or at the very least indifference of people around you. It'll happen on TV, in social media posts, for everyone to see. They will observe it and their reactions will range from apathy to cruel elation. Then they'll turn off their TVs or put away their phones and go shopping.

Maybe the Palestinians will be able to resist enough to deal a massive blow. I know they will fight. I hope for the best. But for now,

Fuck Israel. Fuck Zionists. Fuck America. Fuck the West.

[–] [email protected] 85 points 1 year ago (9 children)

genocide is not just something that happens in the past

It happened like last week too. The entire population of Nagorno-Karabakh fled the region out of fear of massacres.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

One of the most chilling things you realize as you grow up and attain even a degree of political and historical awareness, is that genocide is not just something that happens in the past. It doesn't happen because an evil army materializes and does bad things until the good guys save the day. It's something carried out, in the open, with the support or at the very least indifference of people around you. It'll happen on TV, in social media posts, for everyone to see. They will observe it and their reactions will range from apathy to cruel elation. Then they'll turn off their TVs or put away their phones and go shopping.

They may even make treats out of it, like how southerners used to (CW: death, gore)

spoilercollect knucklebones and other grisly relics from lynching victims
, or how some edgy movies, shows, and/or video games are likely to be made of recent atrocities at a later time (with the sympathy typically reserved for the atrocity-bringer in a shoot-and-cry format).

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 117 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Israel invading Gaza with ground troops would provoke a response from Hezbollah and probably some other nearby nations, and they just spent the last year sending a bunch of their shit to Ukraine. Not to mention that Hamas is expecting a response and probably has all kinds of ambushes ready to go.
I don't know if the Israeli government is insane enough to go in, but it will be the beginning of the end for them if they do.

[–] [email protected] 107 points 1 year ago (3 children)

it will be the beginning of the end for them if they do.

Please don't hang too much hope on this. The counter-offensive will likely be absolute barbarism. Israel has an enormous military advantage. I don't know what will happen but it's very likely that Palestine's position will be drastically worse when this is over. I am sure they will fight with valiant creativity and unimaginable bravery, but I need you all to be ready to keep going if this results in a crushing defeat.

[–] [email protected] 79 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Palestine cannot win alone, but I do not think they will be alone. That's part of why the initial offensive was so successful, Israel can't put its army surrounding Gaza when Syria and Iran and Egypt exist.

I need you all to be ready to keep going if this results in a crushing defeat.

Nothing online matters

[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 year ago

I think they mean on a personal level to not pin all your hopes to this

[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

We're leftists, swallowing defeat is most of our history

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If we're still here after the commune and the USSR's collapse we're not going anywhere.

People forget the first 300 years of Capitalism was also crushing defeat vs the Fuedalists.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Israel has the unlimited backing of the great shaytan and unlike Ukraine is not utilised to grind down the military of a geopolitical rival. I hoped that the hostages taken by Hamas might deter any extreme excesses from the IDF but the unrelenting air strikes indicate that the Israeli government is more than willing to make a couple hundred martyrs.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I hoped that the hostages taken by Hamas might deter any extreme excesses from the IDF

Israel already said they will bomb houses indiscriminately without checking if they contain hostages beforehand IIRC; they don't care.

the Israeli government is more than willing to make a couple hundred martyrs

Already more than 400 Palestinians have been killed in retaliatory airstrikes, including at least 20 children.

Also, while Israel has the backing of the imperial core, ultimately if the recent events have proved something it's that no matter their advances in terms of means / funds / tech, ultimately sufficiently organized and motivated resistance fighters made that count for very little. Erez crossing for example was supposed to be an ultra-secure high tech border checkpoint and it got wrecked instantly.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Israel had unlimited backing by the US when they got thoroughly embarrassed by Hezbollah in '06 too. it seems like Hezbollah's willing to get involved in the case of a ground invasion, I don't think it'd turn out well for Israel.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Israel has said they will level Damascus and kill Assad if Hezbollah invaded them, which seems odd but they are willing to drag a 3rd party into the war. If Syria and Lebanon are going in, Iran and Iraq likely will too at some level

[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 year ago (3 children)

declaring war on like 4 different fronts can only go well

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 70 points 1 year ago

They basically have to go in. The Palestinians have taken hundreds of Israeli prisoners, high value military ones too, and humiliated Israel on the international stage. It would be the end of Netanyahu’s government to do anything besides crank the war crimes to 11.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Israel invading Gaza with ground troops would provoke a response from Hezbollah and probably some other nearby nations

I'm not holding my breath on it.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 111 points 1 year ago

This is going to be ugly no matter what, but the Palestinian fighters winning is the only outcome that opens the possibility of a better world. I wish them the best.

[–] [email protected] 107 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think everyone is worried. But we have to trust the resistance fighters that organized this. It's always been a possibility. They have to have planned for this eventuality. Hopefully Israel invading fully is exactly what is needed to move forward towards liberation.

[–] [email protected] 92 points 1 year ago (1 children)

this

this operation was likely planned years in advance and the speed and precision of Hamas’ actions illustrate this. these people were born at war w their occupiers, their whole lives have led up to this moment of organized resistance. critical support to Palestinians in their efforts against settler-colonialism, genocide, and imperialism. we must not wring our hands over whether this will end badly for Palestine, we may not know the end for years.

a healthy amount of optimism will do us well: urban warfare is costly and dangerous for the aggressor, Hezbollah and Iran will likely intervene if IDF forces invade Gaza, western arms and aid are tied up in Ukraine, IDF soldiers (like US soldiers) are used to bullying civilians and poorly armed rebels so an organized, moderately-equipped Hamas is something they’re unfamiliar with

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (3 children)

To take a step further back, given Saudi's cooling relationship with the US and the fragile state of the petro-dollar Israeli aggression in Gaza might have wider reprecussions in the Arab world, weakening America's position by association.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

definitely. KSA has been playing both sides of the trade war but now the normalization of Saudi-Israeli relations is at risk. and with KSA joining BRICS, the west doesn’t hold nearly as much sway in the Middle East. Israel will soon be the only state there where the US has significant soft power. real cool zone hours

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 95 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Evangelicals are vibrating HARD right now.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am currently very glad that I largely avoid my family. Likely terminal levels of hitler particles

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 87 points 1 year ago (4 children)

all palestinian violence against israel is self-defense.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 year ago (2 children)

urban warfare in one of the most densely populated places on earth. Israelis aren't ready to take casualties on that scale.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think at this point they're humiliated enough to give it the old college try. However, the current strategy simply appears to be aerial bombardment in an effort to flatten every square inch of Gaza.

This is going to kick off another enormous refugee crisis, primarily into Egypt.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 70 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Very worried they're gonna level the entire strip without any regard to Palestinians civilians or even their own people

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago

fr. pretty sure theyre just gonna bombard it and use the 300k troops to strangle refugees

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Yeah that's bad but let's analyze this objectively

For one I highly doubt it's 300k, militaries love to pump out big impressive numbers wthout any regard for reality or on the ground conditions

The majority are conscripts and paramilitary who've been demoralized by the Palestinian victory

Also not all those troops are going to be sent to Gaza, using such large force in a confined space like that would be unwieldy and would tax the logistics and ammo stores of a small state like Isreal past their limit

And troops still have to reinforce the Lebanon border, Golan Heights and the entirety of the West Bank

The minute the Israelis enter the tangled urban sprawl of Gaza city or Khan Yunis is the minute they suffer casualties the likes they've never seen, futher demoralizing an already demoralized concript force

And finally that's all assuming Hezbollah doesn't open up a second front or the West Bank doesn't explode

[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also any video that emerges of Israeli soldiers gunning down Gazans will trigger an explosion in other Arab countries, from what I can gather from my relatives in the region (I dont want to specify which country but its a US ally) they've never seen a mood ike this, not even 2011, cops are out in force, people in the streets are shouting and yelling about Palestine seemingly at random and mosques are full of people talking about what's going on, which is strange cause it's no where near Friday, the Arab world is about to fuckin explode

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago

According to Wikipedia the IDF has about 169k active troops and 465k reserves. 300k troops would be 50% of all Zionist armed forces, assuming total mobilization. Even then, that only leaves half the IDF to stare down Hezbollah in the north, keep a lid on the West Bank, and so forth.

Given how difficult it would be to call up every single reservist in 3 days, I think it's more likely that 300k is the total number of mobilized IDF troops, not just those preparing to beseige Gaza.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hamas absolutely wanted an invasion by taking so many hostages. Theres no way they couldn't see that coming. The question is Hamas actually plans on defeating that invasion force or if they want to go out in a blaze of glory.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago

hopefully the people being conscripted aren't happy about being conscripted.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

All posts must include a link to their source.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (4 children)

No. This is a well-laid trap.

load more comments
view more: next ›