I'm not saying it's easy, but it is simple. Disobey illegal orders.
Exactly. It's not an "urgent matter for the chain of command", it's a settled matter of policy predicated on the unlawful murder of millions.
Agreed. I regret that the consequences for doing the right thing could be very high, but doesn't it just seem like case in so many instances? What a backwards species humans are. No consequences for the guy causing all of the problems but how dare you do the right thing to everyone who rightfully objects.
SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY FUCKIN' EASY DECISION.
Based on how the US military has behaved throughout both recent and more distant history, yeah, the answer's obvious.
They're going to obey.
They're not just going to obey, they'll make videos of it to pass it around as trophies and their citizens will wave it off like it's normal occurrence.
Make crime or make no crime.
Is it allowed to be a serious question for the rest of us as well? Or is it just the fucking Military that has the Option to ditch the Law?
Is it? If you follow orders you will most likely not be punished in any way. If you don't then you definitely will.
I mean, it's easy for you to tell others to take that risk I guess, maybe that's what you meant.
Yes agency - what an awful thing to have. Better be a mindless drone and just coast through life being someone's bitch huh
I'm not directing this at you btw. Just this mentality of "oh I have no choice but to submit" is what got us in ww3 to begin with.
Its what let the Holocaust happen too
That's not a "dilemma." You don't commit war crimes. You absolutely have the right and the duty to refuse illegal orders
I genuinely didn't expect that level of "both sides"-ism from The Guardian.
aren't they illegal orders?
the kind of orders where following them would be committing war crimes
Its not a hard choice, don't commit war crimes
They know the rules, and several elected officials reminded them in video messages that were very controversial.
They are walking into this with their eyes wide open, knowing the entire world is watching. If they accept those orders, and carry them out, they know it will not be forgotten, they will be punished for it eventually. They deserve no mercy if they follow that path.
As a former soldier, "warfighter" is the stupidest fucking word I've heard in my life. It makes me think the speaker is a profound idiot every time I hear it. This might be the first time I've read the word — and it is just as stupid as ever.
placing our warfighters on a path of no return
Can we go back to calling them soldiers?
Thanks you fucking maga idiots. We all told you what was up and you ignored us.
They also ignored all their teachers.
That's how they became MAGAts.
They are going to automate weaponry so soldiers never face a moral dilemma and get in the way of the war machine.
The orange cancer won't be here forever. You commit war crimes, you will find yourself on a very unpleasant trial.
Grow some fucking spines. You commit these war crimes on the demand of a pedophile rapist felon, then you deserve the same fate. You will be a disgrace, a pariah.
Pedophile orders you to commit war crimes for which you know you eventually WILL be judged...
Mmmmm, that IS a tough one...
Everyone with a functioning brain-cell knows that Trump is going to throw kegsbreath under the bus to save himself, and I for one can't wait to see his smug slick backed face hung for war crimes.
Hanged. Ain't no way this textbook case of overcompensating masculine fragility is hung, lbr.
Oh yeah, a real head scratcher
I bet all those big macho MAGAs are breaking down the doors at the recruiting office, riiiight?
Officers now have to decide whether or not to commit war crimes? Wow, that is a dilemma, I wouldn't want to be forced to make that decision. This article does a really good job humanizing their struggle, you can't help but feel bad for them.
Is is legal to commit war crimes in the United States? Because if it is, this becomes an ethical argument rather than a legal one.
With this Trump-appointed crooked SCOTUS and the Trump-appointed crooked US Attorney General, combined with the fact we are not signatories to the ICC? I'm going to sadly say yes.
The US isn't an ICC signatory, but it has its own military law that defines illegal orders, so some subset of war crimes is also illegal under US law. I'm guessing destroying the water infrastructure of nearly 100 million people would be included, but I'll leave it to someone else to fact check that.
TL;DR: It's illegal to commit some war crimes in America, but I don't know about this particular war crime.
There are plenty of brainwashed talibangelicals in the military who will happily push the world into global war at trump’s command.
Minneapolis trials with public hangings or no justice no peace
See the thing is is that you should be afraid of the consequences when you lose. Following illegal orders = war crimes.
How is this a dilemma for the US military? They are going full on war crimes, who's gonna held them accountable anyway?
Polio needs to catch up in that shithole... Polio or whatever, the US are a threat to the whole world.
You gotta be pretty low on the evolutionary ladder to obey orders from a felon rapist pedophile with dementia.
Saluting the Commander and Thief of the US military for trying to claim the "#1 child killer" title.
Also has Congress rubber stamped this shit?
These types of articles are annoying at this point -- the sort of appeal to morality things, based on essentially dead 'world order' concepts. Even when there was a quasi functional set of agreements in place, America just veto'd any attempt to hold it accountable anyhow. International law, or any law really, is largely based on some sort of 'force' that gives it authority -- in a country, that force is generally the state/police, and internationally it was generally the US-lead coalition of western nations. That authority died in 2025.
We've already seen the USA/Hegseth drag all his generals into a room and tell them to not be 'burdened by rules of engagement', encouraging them to commit war crimes openly in order to instill terror in others. Anyone who disagreed with his speech was basically shown the door. This was like a year ago even, it's not 'new'.
The USA basically shredded any moral dilemmas/debates in the process, and burnt the soft power they'd been cultivating for decades/generations in early 2025. What's the point of saying it's wrong based on an old, defunct system that they've already abandoned? If anything, the American right wing will likely cheer that they're getting these sorts of angsty pearl clutching responses from the left / foreign liberal powers. Trump quite literally bragged about America's war crimes in Venezuela during his state of the union address, cracking jokes to which all the republicans laughed and applauded. Trump's threats about Iran's civilian infrastructure, and the bets on whether he'll drop nukes -- these are things that the right wing / Americans want to see happen. They think it's right to do it.
So really, the article shouldn't be about "Oh No!! International Law may be violated!", but rather, "Why should people care about international law being violated, when they've already asserted that they disagree with that law and its results?". Like if/when Trump drops nukes on Irans civilian power plants/water desalination plants etc.... what then? Is there some sort of accountability that's gonna suddenly show up? Prolly not.
"Truth, honour and the American way!" means that soldiers should disobey trump's orders and stand up for their country.
Airplanes and ships firing mechanisms break down all the time, like toilets on aircraft carriers.
I've had people tell me that the soldiers firing missiles or piloting drones don't necessarily know that it's a kindergarten they've been ordered to obliterate, and sure I can see that being the case, but don't they see the reports later? And then go back to work and bomb the next thing they're told to?
Yea so I don’t care. Ignorance isn’t an excuse for us when we speed. It’s not an excuse to kill kids. Question what the fuck your are doing or take the fucking blame for it. It’s so fucking tiring seeing so many people claim they don’t accept responsibility because they chose to be fucking stupid. That’s worse in my eyes and the world would be better off if we all followed that rule.
Sure. But they already fired or demoted most of the military leadership that wasn't on board with following absolutely any order, legal or otherwise. So now the "dilemma" falls mostly to lower-level officers and enlisted.
He’s probably gonna chicken out again anyway.
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