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They still put forth the mutually exclusive arguments, simultaneously. "Our protest couldn't have had an effect, so we totally didn't sacrifice American LGBT folk for a chance at saving Gaza" + "If the Dems had just given in to our protest, we would've voted for them and they would have won"
Both arguments are stupid on their own merits, but together, they paint a picture of intellectual and moral bankruptcy.
I mean, they didn't sacrifice American LGBT folks for a chance to save Gaza. They sacrificed us for absolutely nothing.
Actually, they sacrificed us for an even faster genocide of Gaza. So now everyone loses!
But it's not their fault, and even if it was, America deserves genocide. /s
Based on news of Elon setting up fake pro-Trump liberal advocacy groups before the election do we know how much of these arguments are coming from legit leftists IRL vs manufactured consent? Just curious, when you say ‘they’ are these people you’ve talked to IRL or online?
"Oh damn I lost the race I thought was easy again. Could I be a shit party with shit messaging and wet farts for fans? Nah its everyone else whos wrong"
I've been loudly and proudly critical of the democrats while also voting for Harris and urging others to do so. The democratic presidential campaign in 16 and 24 amounted to: you should vote for us because the other guy sucks. We can get into a lot more details than that, particularly on the shortcomings of the policy plank and messaging, but that's the gist. It didn't work in '16, there was ZERO reason to think it would work in '24, but fuck it, we can always blame the voters.
Unrelated story time, after I got my driver's license, my alcoholic dad would get hammered and then demand that I drive him to the liquor store to buy more liquor, and if I didn't, then I would be responsible when he crashed into someone and killed them while trying to drive himself. It was just a strategy to get me somewhere where I had to listen to him tell me what a piece of shit I was for about an hour, of course, but before I knew any better, I would comply. Eventually I just told him that he was welcome to drive himself, but I'd be letting the state patrol know how to find him.
Dunno why I remembered that story just now. Huh.
The democratic presidential campaign in 16 and 24 amounted to: you should vote for us because the other guy sucks...It didn't work in '16, there was ZERO reason to think it would work in '24, but fuck it, we can always blame the voters.
It wasn't just the same strategy. It was a lot of the same people who worked on Hillary's campaign, as well a bunch of Obama flunkies pushing the, "demographics are destiny," narrative that keeps convincing the party they can safely ignore the working class and focus on, "moderate," Republicans. A bunch or them went on Pod Save America to explain what happened with the Harris Campaign, and (Spoiler Alert) turns out they did everything right, the campaign was great, and everything that went wrong was someone else's fault.
Anyway, I'm sure the OP is right, and the protest voters are why she lost. It's definitely not the fault of the Democratic Party elites who keep re-hiring the same strategist despite their catastrophic failures. I'm gonna get a head start on making memes blaming the left for Hillary's 2028 loss to Trump because no one learns anything and we live in hell.
there was ZERO reason to think it would work in '24
Aside from the fact that it worked in 2020, you mean?
They did do some of it in 20, but Biden actually brought some stuff to the table; two things that spring to mind are student loan forgiveness and national passenger rail revitalization, there's probably some others I can't think of ATM. Yeah, in hindsight, the loan forgiveness ended up not being much to write home about, and the rail revitalization might be getting derailed, but at least he had some actually useful and interesting policy planks besides "not Trump" and "look, it's [celebrity]!"
You're underselling it. They had Bernie Sanders help them write an economically-populist platform in 2020. For all of Biden's many, many faults, he saw which way the wind was blowing in 2020 and leaned into it. Then, in 2024, they decided it was safe to move back to a middle-class centric, moderate economic message, and boy, was that a bad idea.
Well, they were correct that right-wing rhetoric was popular. Diet Republican will just never beat the real thing.
Not only that, but many (but not all) of the implementations of those policies were either middling or incomplete, and there was still so much further to go on progressive economic policies, that it was truly baffling to me that they basically rolled out the "mission accomplished" banner on the economy when the 2024 campaigns were asked about it. Democrats seem terminally terrified of casting stones within the party, to the point of refusing to acknowledge the reality that voters are experiencing because it might make the guys not seeking election look bad. It was frustrating to see that while I was financially worse off then when Biden took office, as was almost everyone else I knew, the democrats were crowing about how great the economy was and essentially declaring economic victory for Biden. I remember getting banned by more than one Mastodon account and labelled a Trump supporter when I raised concerns that this messaging was going to fail to resonate.
It's similarly frustrating now to see the Democratic party leadership and presidential campaign staff saying "well, yes, that makes twice we've lost what should have been the easiest election ever, but we made no mistakes and have nothing to learn here except that we need to be more like Republicans." Likewise, it's concerning to see Democrats legitimizing this administration and already announcing that they're eager to work with them where their priorities align. It makes me think a lot about how back in the 30s, the capitalists were all too ready to align with the Nazis, and a big chunk of the democrats are occupied by the crony capitalist block. I really hope the democrats as a party can get their shit together on a national level, but I'm not counting on it. I'm expecting a lot of lip service about resistance as 96% of them fall in line.
100% spot on, although I will say this; it's not that Democrats are too scared of casting stones within their party. It's that they're too terrified of displaying behavior that would displease donors. They're happy to throw Jamaal Bowman or Rashida Tlaib under the bus if AIPAC is displeased. They'll sideline AOC if her rhetoric makes one of their, "good," billionaires nervous. They've been trying to find a balance between making their wealthy benefactors and their working class base happy for years now, and they still haven't figured out that those goals are antithetical.
and this is just week 1 of episode 2. it's gonna get a lot worse and they won't waste any time. they have to shovel all the shit they have planned before midterms while they still have congress.
if congress doesn't flip and flip hard--like impeachment-ready and veto-proof hard, it's 'game over'. instead of a few decades to fix episode 1, it will take generations, if it is even possible to recover completely at all.
Seeing how Democrats keep gnawing on this bone really lets me know the Democrats are never going to ever win another election. Anything in the world to avoid having to change their failed strategy. They ran the Hillary Clinton campaign and lost again, but God forbid they changed that no it's the voters who are wrong. Should we appeal to voters who care more about the working class than the business class? Nah fuck that. Should we appeal to people who don't like people like Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney? Nah fuck that. Keep fucking that chicken.
I hope they at least got paid. Doing that level of BS for free would just be sad
I am so tired of strategic voting
Unfortunately, that's the only kind of voting there is, so long as there are factions and negotiations (ie always, realistically speaking).
People think of voting at the polls like an opinion poll, but it's not, or shouldn't be treated as such. We are the equivalent of electors in a college or legislators in a parliament. What we wield is not our opinion, it is our political power, what little sliver of it we have in the great mass of the electorate. If Senator John Q. RealtivelyLeft abstained on a bill for universal healthcare tomorrow because the wording displeased him, we wouldn't say "Well, that's just his opinion", we'd lambast him for forsaking a chance to make this fucking country a little less miserable for his own petty partiality. Same with voting.
Look to your left and to your right. Your fellow voters are there, and it's only by majority vote that anything gets passed.
Be strategic. And also, be loud and unafraid of your own position; it's the only way the calculus on strategies changes.
First pass the post suuuuucks. Literally anything else is at least slightly better.
Why are y'all so obsessed with third party voters lmao
If they can blame the voters then the DNC doesn't need to change.
Sounds true... but if you remove one excuse, they will find another. They would rather go down with the ship than change.
After all, changing means losing thier cash flow and influence. Letting the reps win means they can probably keep those things for the rest of their personal lives. They'll be dead before we become a true one party system.
As I said in another thread elsewhere on the same subject:
The Protest Vote Paradox™
As we’ve all read time after time in the months leading up to the election, the Protest Vote™ simply states states that:
“We refuse to vote against a Tyrant-Felon in order to send a clear and concise message that we will not stand for [roll D20 for random popular single issue], and alongside our refusal to vote against the Tyrant-Felon, is a collective hope that the aforementioned clear and concise message- if ignored, is received under unmitigated duress!”
-Cut to Tyrant-Felon’s win, and the aftermath:
Whether observed or not, the behavior of the Protest Voter will attempt to achieve the following:
• Obnoxiously tell everyone: “We told you all what would happen!”
• Onnoxiously claim there is: “No way protest voting could cause trump to win.”
As both of these options cannot simultaneously be true in the same reality without breaking important time-space things that we would probably prefer not be broken- we are left with only a few logical conclusions:
Something, something, something Ted Talk.
Still thinking the people to blame are the DNC elites that went on to run on a right platform, even inviting fucking war criminal mass murderer Dick Cheney to advocate for them.
Also Trump is not something that just happened. The US is an empire in decline and Trump is a symptom of that. The conditions of decline are maintained by the Republicans and Democrats and voting either won't be enough to turn things around.
Its been time to fundamentally reform the political system at the very least since 2016.
