chapotraphouse

Obviously if someone like Ben Shapiro says something like, 'Israel is commiting a genocide and should stop.' we know that he's not changed in any way it's just politically expedient for him to do so. We don't have to invite him to become a PSL member or say we'll watch his videos, but we should still say 'good on you for admitting it.' not because it will change his mind, but it will tear down some walls with his followers who see it.

Hexbear: We Got an Emoji for That

Guilt and shame are unpleasant, but completely normal human feeling. They're only harmful to us when it gets pathological (which is very common probably at least in part due to how it gets misused).

I don't care about swearing, but if a kid has done something legitimately bad like bullying or harming other kids, telling them they should feel guilty or shameful about that isn't violence or harming the kid in any way, and is just a necessary part of helping them grow up.

I think the emphasis on "keep it in proportion" is trying to acknowledge that there's a deeper discussion to be had there without getting too sidetracked from the main point of the post. To get in to that discussion, I would say that shame is not a tool to be used, but effectively handling a situation where a child has caused significant harm (maybe not swearing, but something more serious) is going to involve some amount of guilt or shame.

Sometimes children misbehave because they have to, but often it's because they don't understand why what they did is wrong, or that there's a better way to act. If someone can explain these things, a small, appropriate amount of guilt can make the lesson much more memorable.

This takes a lot of skill, and understanding of the situation the kid is in, how they are feeling, and how they are reacting. Many people don't follow this, and they can cause more harm doing it badly. But trying to educate someone after they've done something wrong while avoiding causing them any guilt at all is not going to be very effective. And reserving shame or guilt only for people you've declared to be lost causes is not a healthy approach.

who the fuck is scraeming "STOP JERKING OFF" at my house. show yourself, coward. i will never stop jerking off

I mean if you arent ashamed 🤷 but also shame is a social tool. Takes alot for it tp be effective while thay person is alone.

I think that's a little different. It's both existing within some pretty complicated and old etiquette surrounding hospitality and, perhaps more crucially, is actually the host actively not shaming the person and creating where the guest can go above and beyond - even if the whole thing is performance. Take as counter-example, if someone were to invite you over and then really get down on you for not bringing anything, do you suppose you would want to go back over there for dinner?

There's some underlying claims here that could, should (and probably are) scientifically examined, yes.

But... I don't think there's any harm in having less academically formal conversations on the topic. Shame and guilt are pretty universal experiences - emotions we all have. Maybe comparing subjective lived experiences to a description won't get you published in a journal, but we can still find meaning in it, still derive useful conclusions.