393
Self of Theseus (thelemmy.club)
submitted 5 hours ago by Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/microblogmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] cynar@lemmy.world 6 points 41 minutes ago

There are 3 types of continuity.

  • Continuity of material
  • Continuity of identity
  • Continuity of memory

Teleport me, and I can continuity of identity and memory. The same applies slower to material replacement.

(Mind) Clone me and I have continuity of memory only. I would consider this me me, but close enough to count, unless the original was still in play.

Wipe my memory and I have continuity of identity and material. Legally it's still me, but I would consider the disconnect the loss of myself.

Basically, I want continuity of memory and identity, but only memory is critical to it. Thomas has his memories intact, and has continuity of identity. He's definitely still Thomas.

[-] Kolanaki@pawb.social 19 points 1 hour ago

You already are a ship of theseus that is sentient. Every cell in your body is replaced around every 7-12 years.

[-] Bongles@lemmy.zip 2 points 37 minutes ago

I'm not even convinced I wake up the same me that fell asleep.

[-] tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 3 points 52 minutes ago

And we are fully dependent on things like bacteria too. Some of which affects us through the gut-brain pathway.

[-] Sir_Premiumhengst@lemmy.world 4 points 1 hour ago

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and oddly enough I feel profoundly different every decade or so. Wouldn't almost recognize my younger self.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 7 points 1 hour ago

That whole universe is horrifying. Remember when they closed off that one guy behind a brick wall because he wouldn't work hard enough?

[-] Apepollo11@lemmy.world 10 points 1 hour ago

It's worse than that - he wasn't being lazy, he was convinced that if he came out of the tunnel, the rain would ruin his paint. Even after it stopped raining, he still wouldn't come out just in case it started raining again.

Basically he had a mental illness, and his punishment was to be bricked up and forced to watch the other trains going past. One is friendly, one says it serves him right. Because he has no steam, he's unable to communicate. And all the time his paint is slowly getting ruined anyway because he's stuck in the tunnel.

As someone who's had a breakdown, it really resonates in a different way than it did when I was a kid.

[-] obelisk_complex@piefed.ca 1 points 51 minutes ago

Or maybe - just maybe - we're more than the sum of our parts.

[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 54 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Isn’t the human body exactly that

I’m pretty sure I’m not my 10 year old self. Even though i have since off their memories

[-] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

living beings isnt a matter thing, and more of a wave of matter that propagates by getting more matter and shedding old one.

[-] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 19 points 4 hours ago

Apart from specific non-proliferating cells, statistically all of your entire body's cells will have been completely replaced every 7 years*.

So we're all exactly like that... just over such a long period of time we don't notice it.

*For the quickest proliferating cells in your body, like your skin cells, this is a matter of just weeks.

[-] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 4 hours ago

iirc nerve cells basically live forever. So I'm the end, you'll completely regenerate, except for your nerve cells

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 2 points 3 hours ago

Some of the atoms/molecules in your body have probably already cycled through the entire food web and come back to you ... probably multiple times, especially if you don't move around a lot and eat locally produced food.

[-] NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 hours ago

But do the molecules and atoms in each cell stay the same?

[-] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 1 points 1 hour ago

Probably not, even in non-proliferating cells. They do still have to repair damage after all.

But I have no idea of what the timescale is for the complete replacement of every atom in your body

[-] affenlehrer@feddit.org 6 points 4 hours ago

With consciousness not being fully understood it's possible you're a different person every time you wake up or just randomly between thoughts or maybe you're everyone and you just quickly round robin context switch or maybe you don't have a consciousness and I'm the only one who has one?

[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

Put the weed down /s

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 5 hours ago

Pretty much, yeah. Though the amount of self-awareness varies wildly.

[-] Oka@sopuli.xyz 5 points 5 hours ago

This is my view: Your body ages and regenerates. You are a living ship of theseus, you are a different person at different stages of life. Yet, you retain the memory of your past life.

The ship of theseus is an entirely different ship, but it retains the memory of a self.

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 2 points 3 hours ago

So if a brain injury causes you to lose your memories, you are an entirely different person?

[-] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago

People with Alzheimer’s usually are totally different people. Though they do tend to retain some long-term memories or skills.

[-] qualia@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

I'm taking bids for a contract: what's the minimum rate of surgeries per year you can offer to make me immortal. I offer a perpetual fraction of my lifetime earnings, to be agreed upon later.

[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

I can make you immortal with zero surgeries per year! Just sign right here for 20% of your lifetime earnings in perpetuity.

Sure, sure, I know that sounds like a scam, but don't worry -- it's guaranteed! If you ever die (thus discovering that you have not, in fact, been made immortal), you're entitled to a full refund of everything you've ever paid into it, plus interest!

[-] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

I don't have time for an existential crisis

[-] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 23 points 5 hours ago

If they made a spare of each of Thomas's parts, replaced them one at a time, and then reassembled all his original parts, would there be two Thomases with all his thoughts and memories?

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 8 points 5 hours ago

Why not just assemble all of Thomas' spare parts immediately, without dismantling the original? Same end result, should be indistinguishable.

[-] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 hours ago

So with a human, if you could make all the parts and assemble them, it wouldn't result in the result having all the memories because the brain part doesn't work that way - it stores memories and experiences that the fresh parts wouldn't have. We know Thomas is sentient, but as far as we've seen, all his parts are just train parts (maybe face notwithstanding); we have never seen that there's a brain part.

So I'm going to postulate that there's some essence of Thomas that persists through the part swaps. What's unclear is whether or not those individual pieces that are swapped out retain the essence of Thomas and would be recreated if they were reassembled.

[-] Takapapatapaka@tarte.nuage-libre.fr 3 points 4 hours ago

it stores memories and experiences that the fresh parts wouldn’t have

What if we place the human fresh parts in the exact molecular state, that the original is in ? If my understanding is correct, our memories are somehow encoded with whatever chemical biology is happening in the brain, and if we suppose we can imitate those chemical states with the fresh parts, shouldn't we get the same memories/consciousness ?

[-] yakko@feddit.uk 6 points 5 hours ago

I mean, ideally the repair would fail and you'd have two dead trains. Anything else is vaguely sickening

[-] sundray@lemmus.org 5 points 4 hours ago

Every day you get the chance to be a new and better person.

this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2026
393 points (100.0% liked)

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