: "Sure, we COULD abolish the electoral college so every American has a stake in the election and just do ranked choice voting instead, but that would hurt the GOP and WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!"
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2024
143 points (98.6% liked)
chapotraphouse
13496 readers
924 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank
Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here
Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
It would be TYRANNY of the MAJORITY and clearly the more enlightened way to do representation is a few fickle assholes in corn country.
A government of the few fickle assholes in corn country, by the few fickle assholes in corn country, for the few fickle assholes in corn country.
To be fair imagine the opinions and beliefs a majority of Americans hold
Can't be worse than the opinions and beliefs of the American bourgeoisie.
You got me there
"We need a healthy Republican party" - democrats
We managed to "escape" the drama of primary elections this year, but the whole primary campaign trail, where the first 5-10 states decide who the candidate is is also a absolute fucking farce. For the Democrats, half of these states aren't even going to yield a single democrat elector, but we still let them choose the candidate. South Carolina sealed the deal that we were Riding with Biden. How did they vote in the General? The whole thing is a fucking shell game.
If you want the process to be democratic, all of these elections should occur simultaneously. And if they don't, any state which failed to yield electors in the previous two elections should go dead fucking last.
It’s fucking ludicrous to not have all of the primaries on the same date
And then you have the "caucuses." Secret ballots? Naa. How about you go personally stand in a specific corner of a public school gymnasium in front of news cameras (and make it a several hour ordeal instead of punching a box and leaving).
Then have a BS verbal vote where your boos against Buttigieg actually end up counting as support for him 
Then the BS coinflip to decide support.
Which is then cheated
"I was saying Boo-ttigieg" 
go personally stand in a specific corner of a public school gymnasium
I first saw footage of that on tv when I was a boy in the late 1970s. I couldn't believe it. I don't remember if I had seen SNL by then or not. But the thing in the gym certainly seemed like something from a comedy sketch and not something that was real that sane adults actually did.
I actually disagree with this. The way it is now is stupid ya but having the primaries be staggered could give the chance for otherwise unknown candidates to gain traction. Since a national campaign is hard to pull off for a small candidate but if they can focus in on 1 state they can actually make an impact and then get national attention by doing well in that single state.
Now in saying that i dont actually think liberal democracies are a good thing. I prefer a model like China has where you have elections in sequential levels with the lower level reps electing the higher level reps. It allows a more close connection to the people representing you and keeps elections small so that small candidates can make their case easily. And prevents sensationalization the way american elections are. I would combine a system like this with the ability to enact direct democratic actions via ballot measures on specific issues that people are really invested in.
The same outcome could be achieved by holding a run-off election in the case were nobody wins 50% outright.
Nah cuz its still just too big and too fast. Small candidates need like time to build up momentum to get off the ground. And they cant break thru and get traction in a huge national election at all cuz they dont have the funds to buy ad space and stuff nationally yet. Limiting it to a small area makes it a lot cheaper to compete.
Okay that’s a good point actually. Maybe they should just be in order of population from smallest to biggest? That way anyone could win until pretty late in the thing and every state might actually matter
I think that still runs into the problem of the first state being like really conservative. I think if ur looking to like change the system as little as possible and improve the primary a bit maybe you could find like a low population state that also leans heavily in your favor typically in the general and start there? That way its a small test run election with your actual base. Or maybe do like city primaries? Like NYC, LA, etc have their own primary elections, party sponsored events where all the candidates get to speak, and then broadcast them nationally. Then do a big national primary a few weeks or months later?
But tbh i think the main issue is that the primaries atleast for the dems are generally just rigged anyway. Youve got like super delegates, and back door deals to stop any left leaning candidates.
Every state Democratic party should be pursue their own national political interest and move their primary date up to be tied with the first. Its absurd that you'd just let your states political interest be moot.
2020 primaries are needed to be encased and shown to everyone who still hold any delusions about democracy in USA, Bernie was constantly either in the lead or close to it everywhere, Biden wasn't even really talked about at most i heard "Biden, nah, he's too old and too rightwing" and then suddenly boom, nearly every other candidate suddenly quits and supports Biden, and the crowd went with pure "vote blue no matter who" extasy.
Every single aspect of voting in this country is a system of hedging bets. It is a tangled mess of yarn, fishing line, cables, and hair. Unfucking a single piece of it wouldn’t fix it, nor is anyone even willing to try. The system cannot correct itself and voting is a useless waste of time. The only way to “Save Democracy” would be to burn it all down and go again.
I'm told that if we vote and then wish hard enough RCV will manifest and save everything
Lemmytors are truly insufferable, they come out and speak like the patients from heavy delusions jokes, but are entirely serious. And the worst part is, they are always assume it "will happen" despite all the centuries of it not happening.
"If you don't like the candidates, vote for the person most likely to implement ranked choice voting and then campaign to get it adopted!" ~I\ personally\ am\ fine\ with\ the\ status\ quo\ and\ will\ do\ nothing\ to\ help\ but\ good\ luck\ out\ there\ kiddo.~
vote for the person most likely to implement ranked choice voting
So, Claudia de la Cruz?
No, silly, she can't win because it has been foreordained as such.
Hey still progress from the Roman Republic where 0,5% of citizens had opportunity to vote and onlt 10% of those really counted.
Oh, now i see that is the reason Usians always insist USA is a republic, not a democracy.
and those aren't even exclusive terms. you can have democratic republics and undemocratic republics, as long as it's not a monarchy it's a republic afaik
I'm not sure "democratic" has any real content as state descriptor in the west anymore besides being a dogwhistle for (usually white) neoliberal governments dominated by markets
I’m not sure “democratic” has any real content as state descriptor in the west anymore besides being a dogwhistle for (usually white) neoliberal governments dominated by markets
Hey, it can mean something else too! 
🇰🇵
But also the 86% need to vote blue or they're accelerationists
It's even lower than that because those 43 states include the most populated states in the country.
PA, GA, and NC are large states with a healthy population, but otherwise yeah
and even among people in those states, it all falls down to a few million at best credulous dipshits who could go either way. Most people will vote one way and will not flip no matter what
It’s really more about the people who will either vote for you or not vote and getting them to actually vote. “Swing voters” are like 6 guys, 5 of who are in solidly red states where it won’t matter anyway.
I feel obligated to point out once again that of eligible US overseas citizens, the turnout rate in 2022 was like 3.4% -- and as I've said before, when you have a demographic of nearly 3 million people with turnout rates that abysmal, what you call that is a sham election.
Not that the sham nature of US elections was ever under question, the country's famously land-based election system is after all located on stolen land.
I'm an overseas American and I am not voting because it would be a bizarre waste of time. Not only would I be voting by mail in a solidly blue state but if votes by mail ever determined an election there would be a coup.
That is what I'm saying, that if any substantial number of overseas Americans actually did exercise their "right" to vote in a way that impacted the results of an election in any meaningful way, that the entire facade of democracy would just immediately come crashing down, as the powers-that-be would just make up some shit about "foreign votes by mail" being a form of election fraud, and commit a coup. History proves time and time again that the moment average people actually manage to "hack" the electoral game, the game just gets thrown right out the window, right?
I'm also an overseas American with ties to a blue state, and I was going back and forth on whether I should vote at all, but I've resolved that I'm going to vote in this election for Claudia and Karina. I'm not expecting to change the results of the election at all, and to that extent it is a "waste of time"; but it will at least give the PSL a little more visibility, and it might be good for agitprop to say that I voted.
Third largest country on earth, by the way. You have to go to India or China if you wanted to disenfranchise more of an electorate. But we spread democracy! Or something!
That 🦅 moment when you are competing with Malta and Israel on the "democracy index" (Malta 28th, US 29th, Israel 30th) and they call you a "flawed democracy"
Some fun facts:
-
On the points "functioning of government" and "political culture" the US is competing with Hungary
-
The US has a worse score in "electoral process and pluralism" than for example Poland, Malaysia, Panama and Brazil
-
Besides Hungary, Eritrea and Uganda have a better score in "political culture" than the US
But ngl, people who think that the US is a perfect example of a democracy probably also think that the US is a keeper of peace for striking civilian targets in Iraq.