this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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Recommendations for a hidden camera? (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
52 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

My mom is in assisted living and I have a suspicion that the staff, or perhaps a resident, is taking her money. I need something that won't look out of place and isn't easily disabled, maybe it plays possum when unplugged but has battery backup. Anyone have any advice?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Assuming you live in the United States, you need to be aware of the laws in the state you live in. Many states are one party consent when it comes to recording. Which means if you and I are having a conversation, you can record it without telling me. One party has consented.

If on the other hand, you install a camera without your mom's knowledge, then you are not one of the two parties. This "evidence" could be thrown out of court as it is "illegally aquired".

Not to say you shouldn't do it. Protect your mom's property. I would just suggest looking into the local laws about it. I am also not a lawyer so you should look into your local laws or consult a lawyer.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

IANAL, but I believe these laws cover audio recording only. OP shouldn’t have an issue if they use something that records video only.

Think about it a second. I live in a two party consent state, but I see security & surveillance cameras everywhere. If two party consent was required for video then they wouldn’t be there.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The doorbell cameras that everyone have all record audio, in blatant violation of law, and they hand it over to police. I'm surprised there hasn't been a court case to really slap those companies on the wrist.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Outdoors are generally not protected by right to privacy, even if on private property.

Someone standing in their own front lawn can be recorded with both video and audio without their consent.

This is what makes it legal to record police.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 22 hours ago

Hmm, interesting. A lot of things make more sense now.

I think there should be protections a bit stronger than that, at least. You're forced to go outside to basically live life. If you have a situation where you're forced to pass through someone else's property by geometry they lose their right to stop you, and something similar should apply here.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 18 hours ago

Yeah, that's mostly true, but the front porch of a home is part of the home for 4th amendment purposes. Police obtaining warrant-less access to your front porch would violate this.

If someone is out on the street, it can still be illegal depending on the state. In new york, for example, the definition of illegal eavesdropping includes:

"Mechanical overhearing of a conversation" means the intentional overhearing or recording of a conversation or discussion, without the consent of at least one party thereto, by a person not present thereat, by means of any instrument, device or equipment.

There's no no stipulation about location.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The problem isn't just that it will be thrown out in court, it's that it itself is illegal.

Which doesn't necessarily mean don't do it but you're limited in how you can reveal how you know things are being stolen etc.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Agreed. I'm not entirely (barely) versed in the law, but at the very least, if it's a one party consent state, his mom would "have to set it up".

What's less clear to me is why the drastic action? Start by leaving a 20 on the dresser and see if it stays there.

[–] [email protected] 89 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Just remember that if the staff find out that you apparently trust none of them and believe that they are - potentially - thieves there is a possibility that the level and quality of care your mother receives could diminish. Also, I assume you’ve checked the legality of filming this way in your jurisdiction.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I don't think this is true. Most people in health and elder care would rather do their job than risk getting fired or sued because of a rude client.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I’m not suggesting for one second that the mother would have a negative care experience. I’m just stating the obvious that some people would no longer do those extra little things. I notice in some of the care homes I go to that some residents are called by name and some are referred to by room number. All of them have their needs met - just some are treated more compassionately and others are treated only professionally.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

On the other hand it can lead to the nursing home ending the contract due to this - hidden surveillance of staff is definitely a reason to do so. They can also prohibit OP from entering the premises.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Yes. Absolutely. If someone questioned my staff’s honesty and DIDN’T BRING IT TO MY ATTENTION FIRST, I wouldn’t want them as customers.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And you don’t understand how they might worry that you’d be in on it, or that coming to you with no evidence might be fruitless?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

If you have any suspicion of illegality and or impropriety that includes the management I would suggest that you nope your relative the fuck out of that home…

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (9 children)

Yeah. It would be a crime in my jurisdiction anyway, but nevertheless basically every nursing home administration I worked with (and I have nursing homes in 7 countries as clients) would instantly react massively to a relative doing this.

We would advise them to ban the relative from entering the premises and then discuss if the contract should be cancelled. That very much depends on the individual circumstances - if it is a distant relative who is simply intrusive it's a different story to a situation when the offender is the main contact for the client, also the expected remaining contract time (in other words how long a patient is expected to live) should be considered.In special circumstances (dying patient) supervised visits of said relative may be considered.

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Put in a non-hidden camera.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 2 days ago (2 children)

This. Go ahead and tell everyone that you are worried about your mother and would like to see her anytime and check on her for your own peace of mind. Post a clear, preferably large, sign up front that there's an active camera in the room. But do not insist on it. That'll tell you all you need to know about the staff very quickly.

For the camera, use a regular old wifi-enabled baby monitor (App-controlled for best results) and connect it to a mobile Internet router. These routers have internal logs - learn how to access them, then check them (remotely, after setting up security in them) at intervals for suspicious reboot events.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

If she's well enough to consent to this, have her consent. Then install the cameras in such a way that her privacy is not eroded. For example, camera A only sees the door into the room, camera B only sees the night stand, camera C only sees the wardrobe. That sort of thing. Then instruct her to always keep her valuables in a location where at least one camera can monitor.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No nursing home worth their money would and should allow this...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why the hell not?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It does heavily impede the privacy of the client - it is massively intrusive as nursing care can be a very private matter for the patient, it does infringe on the privacy rights of the staff and opens up a whole lot of legal issues.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I don't know the mental capacity of OP's mother, but if she can consent to this, I don't see a problem with what is essentially a patient deciding to film themselves in their own room. And if she's not capable of consenting to this, I'd say that OP's suggestion to install a hidden camera in her room is pretty unethical.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

She consents, however she's not mentally well enough to know she's being robbed. Someone has been taking her cash and tried to use her debit card. The bank flags it, cancels her card, then she has to wait 2 weeks for a new card. Her bank is a credit union in another state, so she has no money until then. I have power of attorney as of 3 days ago

[–] Birdie 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

If someone is attempting to use her card, maybe it's time to talk to police? That's illegal, right?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 12 hours ago

Yes but she gets confused. She denies people are using her card but I doubt mom would order something from tiktok llc

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

If the patient would be fully competent there would not be a question if the money was taken by staff.

And nursing home patients are a highly vulnerable population - they are sadly often easily pressured into consenting by relatives. Consenting to a camera is even one of the less nefarious things they do consent to....I have seen far worse.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

There are hidden cameras that look like power strips.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 days ago

Did you Google this? They have cameras that look like phone chargers. Also, install a non hidden camera and a hidden one.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My middle school used alarm clock cameras to spy on us. Cheap-o's couldn't be bothered to buy real cameras. I don't have a link, but it's just an idea

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Ideas are what I'm looking for. Clock camera is a good idea

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

Wyze cameras are really cheap.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Im curious what you mean by "plays possum". Because if it doesn't have a battery backup it wont work very well unplugged. Been looking at cameras for the house lately, and have yet to find one that flips over and sticks its legs in the air when unplugged.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Maybe he meant the red indicator light turns off when it's unplugged but continues recording until the battery runs out

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

That's how I read what they wrote.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Yes that's what I meant

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

You don’t have any other idea to check if the thing is happening?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Do you have any ideas? How would you detect theft of cash when the owner of the cash doesn’t trust their own memory?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

Hide behind the curtain?

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