this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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Just remember that if the staff find out that you apparently trust none of them and believe that they are - potentially - thieves there is a possibility that the level and quality of care your mother receives could diminish. Also, I assume you’ve checked the legality of filming this way in your jurisdiction.
I don't think this is true. Most people in health and elder care would rather do their job than risk getting fired or sued because of a rude client.
I’m not suggesting for one second that the mother would have a negative care experience. I’m just stating the obvious that some people would no longer do those extra little things. I notice in some of the care homes I go to that some residents are called by name and some are referred to by room number. All of them have their needs met - just some are treated more compassionately and others are treated only professionally.
So no, they’re not getting all their needs met?
I’m not sure how you can come to that conclusion when it contradicts the actual words I wrote.
Working to rule vs working for people.
On the other hand it can lead to the nursing home ending the contract due to this - hidden surveillance of staff is definitely a reason to do so. They can also prohibit OP from entering the premises.
Yes. Absolutely. If someone questioned my staff’s honesty and DIDN’T BRING IT TO MY ATTENTION FIRST, I wouldn’t want them as customers.
And you don’t understand how they might worry that you’d be in on it, or that coming to you with no evidence might be fruitless?
If you have any suspicion of illegality and or impropriety that includes the management I would suggest that you nope your relative the fuck out of that home…
Yeah. It would be a crime in my jurisdiction anyway, but nevertheless basically every nursing home administration I worked with (and I have nursing homes in 7 countries as clients) would instantly react massively to a relative doing this.
We would advise them to ban the relative from entering the premises and then discuss if the contract should be cancelled. That very much depends on the individual circumstances - if it is a distant relative who is simply intrusive it's a different story to a situation when the offender is the main contact for the client, also the expected remaining contract time (in other words how long a patient is expected to live) should be considered.In special circumstances (dying patient) supervised visits of said relative may be considered.
That seems completely reasonable. I, personally, would support such a stance from any care home. If you don’t trust us enough to broach a subject with us I wouldn’t want you as a client.
It seems completely unreasonable to me. If a person wants a security camera in their home, they should be allowed to have one.
Thinking of that room as your staff’s workplace makes me wonder if you’ve forgotten it’s also someone’s home.
It is not their home. Period.
In your home you can also install a cooktop/hot plate, light a candle, paint the walls any colour you like. All of which you are not allowed to do in a nursing home.
And it is not the patient who wants the camera, it's a relative. And even in your home a hidden camera that monitors a family members toilet/bathroom would be very much illegal in most jurisdictions,even more so if the family members may be unable to decide on that matter competently.
Additionally it is a workplace. For professionals. Tbh: In almost all industrial nations it's far easier to find another client than find another carer. And due to all the causes I already mentioned in this topic almost all carers will be very uncomfortable with this situation - because,well they care about their clients a lot. And that also includes the dignity of their patients.
His mom is in assisted living, not a nursing home. My mom is also in assisted living. She's got a stove in her apartment, she can cook her own meals if she wants to! Until recently, she could drive herself to Walmart if she felt like it. She has decorated her apartment in her own style because--get this--it's her home!!
Plus he hasn't said one thing about pointing a camera at his mother's bathroom!
It is her home. How disheartening to see you think it isn't.
Yes, it is someone’s home… and in this specific incidence it is a third party trying to install a camera. There is nothing in the post that says the mother has requested to be filmed in her most intimate setting.
It is simply an issue of humanity as well - nursing care is an immensely private issue for most people.
Not many adults would want to be filmed when he/she is getting their diapers changed after they soiled themselves accidentally. If you ask most older folks they don't even want their kids/relatives to be doing that out of shame. Most wouldn't want their kids/relatives to even be present. (Note: This is highly dependent on the culture, though, I can only speak for Western&Arab clients here)
Now imagine being the patient and not even knowing whether someone is watching. Besides - we often don't know enough about the actual relationship between the kids and the client. I've seen old folks agree to a lot of shit simply because of pressure ("I won't come and visit you anymore if you don't sign this"), extortion ("I only bring the grandkids of you wire me amount XY") or downright abuse.
The later is also an issue: There are perverts all around the net. I know of at least one instance when a hidden camera (in that case placed by nurse) was used to stream nursing situation to a fetish site on the net. Thankfully by sheer luck the whole operation failed spectacularly before any harm was done.
(The nurse placed the cam while the patient was away to dialysis. The patient collapsed there and sadly passed away in hospital. The nurse was unable to retrieve the camera due to being quarantined due to COVID. A relative who was either in IT sec or a LEO-i can't remember -of the patient removed the belongings and found the camera. Nurse caught themselves on cam when installing the cam and was charged, sentenced to two years on probation, a high fine and banned from ever working in a care job again. The only reason why no actual prison sentence was handed out was the confession which helped in a larger case.)
Damn, that nurse/camera story is truly disgusting - but sadly, like you say, these people do exist. Imagine being an intensely private and reserved person your whole life - then one of your kids decides to film you 24/7. I’d be mortified if that was me.
Just talked to a friend about it - he is head of a nursing home group in Central Europe.
He had multiple cases when they had relatives trying to do that. Funnily enough the main reason cited by the relatives was to stop other relatives from "doing something funny about the will" .
They actually have a policy when they place a hidden camera in cases of alleged property theft - but this is done in conjunction with the client, their relatives (if not the target), sometimes the court and done by a professional company in a way that the actual patient is not part of the picture/not compromised. (And it's paid for by the facility - they don't want a rotten apple as well)
That’s seems like a well thought out policy with appropriate checks and balances built in. It would be hard to argue against this being the best of a bad situation.