▲ 373 ▼ Federation be like (hexbear.net) submitted 3 years ago by a_talking_is2@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net 219 comments fedilink hide all child comments Too obvious to be funny, but i still wanted to draw a shitpost.
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 11 points 3 years ago (4 children) Lins? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 84 points 3 years ago* (3 children) I think he misspelled lib. Btw what we mean by liberals is the original political term for those who support capitalism, not the colloquial American synonym for Democrat that alt-right types use. Conservative and libertarians are also liberals strictly speaking because they also subscribe to the same basic underlying ideology. Edit: quoting the relevant part In Europe and Latin America, liberalism means a moderate form of classical liberalism and includes both conservative liberalism (centre-right liberalism) and social liberalism (centre-left liberalism). In North America, liberalism almost exclusively refers to social liberalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 82 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) Conservative and libertarians are also liberals strictly speaking because they also subscribe to the same basic underlying ideology. How can you say such a thing! There's a full 16pt difference in our preferred tax rates and we still can't agree on the exact specifications of the worker visa program for illegal residents permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 84 points 3 years ago (1 child) Old joke, the Soviet Union could’ve avoided collapse if instead of having one official state party, they had two, and they agreed on absolutely everything except abortion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 29 points 3 years ago (1 child) There's actually a lot to be said about the concept of "competitive" (not necessarily democratic) elections and how they increase the stability of a political system by shifting people's perceptions of what is wrong, that's part of what Fritz Bartel talks about in "The Triumph of Broken Promises", the neoliberal period imposed extremely harsh conditions on people but everybody went along in the end because they felt that they had a choice in the matter (lol) meanwhile the eastern block states wanted to try doing austerity but they knew the people would never stand for it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Also ties into Chomsky’s observation that compliance with a political economy regime is done by having a narrow band of acceptable opinions but fierce debate within the band. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago Didn't know he made that point, very astute permalink fedilink source parent [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 25 points 3 years ago (5 children) We really gotta get more unique words for things. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] aaro@hexbear.net 48 points 3 years ago* (2 children) Hey I just wanted to stop in and say thanks for being patient, the whole terminology thing around ideologies is one of the more confusing barriers to entry into leftist thought but you're working thru it like a champ You've already been linked the Wikipedia definition which is super helpful but I'm gonna paste the first bit again because it's worth reading more times, for fluent lefties as well: Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, constitutional government and privacy rights. Based on this, all democrats and pretty much all republicans and libertarians are liberals, and that's on purpose. This is what we mean when we throw punches at "libs" - we all believe that some of these qualities are good, but libs believe that all of these things are good - we don't terribly like things like "equality before the law" (it's just as bad for Jeff Bezos to steal a loaf of bread from a supermarket as it is for a houseless person), "freedom of the press/speech" (your freedom of the press is legally endowed on you just as it is to Elon Musk or Rupert Murdoch even though their actual freedom of the press is millions of times what yours is because they own billion dollar news and speech platforms), "right to private property" (you have the right to own dozens of resort properties just like Donald Trump does), etc. Liberalism - democrat, Republican, and libertarian - is built on the idea that everyone can use dollars and power and status to exercise their rights to whatever degree they want to, and one of our biggest reasons for calling them out under their shared umbrella of liberalism is that they all share the same fallacious worldview that allows people with more dollars to have more fundamental enshrined rights, and even though people with very few dollars can't actually exercise any of their fundamental enshrined rights, liberals pretend they have the same rights just because they could exercise them if they had more money. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Gotcha. Thanks for the additional information. Politics can get muddy real fast, and terms can be abused or misused to create confusion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago that's why we stick to the definitions used globally and historically and avoid the colloquial usage. culture changes but history is already written. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Civility@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago 🥰 permalink fedilink source parent [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 42 points 3 years ago (1 child) To be fair, this is more an American english thing. Re-quoting the relevant part of the Wikipedia article In Europe and Latin America, liberalism means a moderate form of classical liberalism and includes both conservative liberalism (centre-right liberalism) and social liberalism (centre-left liberalism). In North America, liberalism almost exclusively refers to social liberalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huf@hexbear.net 17 points 3 years ago (1 child) even that's not entirely accurate. in hungary for example, "libsi", "liberális" means what it does in mainstream american politics (rabid capitalists that are not necessarily against gay people existing). this isnt that surprising, since orban hired former republican campaign managers to build up his image/rhetoric permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 14 points 3 years ago I didn't really want to get into Overton Window stuff in a brief post but yes, good point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Frank@hexbear.net 38 points 3 years ago (1 child) It's a problem. Libertarians stole "libertarian" for the Anarchists. "Liberal" now means you want to paint a rainbow on the bomb. People think "Conservatism" is a real thing but Nazis aren't. Most people have no idea what Anarchism, Communism, or Socialism actually entail, let alone the enormous breadth of thouaght across the length. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago We just need a point system. Ohhh you’re a 230? Fuck you 200 class people! Haha 😛 permalink fedilink source parent [–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 38 points 3 years ago (1 child) Not really, terms should be historically constituted and there is a serious amount of self-codification among liberal theorists that makes the term extremely useful There are only eight subspecies of liberalism that actually matter to real world politics, and they cover everything between anarcho-capitalists to DNC blue no matter who libs Classical liberalism, utopian liberalism, social liberalism, neoliberalism, ordoliberalism, dirigisme, siege liberalism, and the mutated step-child fascism, these are the actual differentiations among the defenders of capitalism There is only confusion on this matter because utopian, social and neo liberals successfully appropriated a mountain of socialist and anarchist lingo and incoherently applied it to themselves. I don't blame them, liberalism is deprived of any genuine vision of human progress or solidarity, it wears the liberatory spirit of anti-capitalist ideologies like a carnival mask and as a result millions of potential radicals end up confused as to where they stand in the struggle over capitalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] panopticon@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago The popular American usage can just die as it isn't specifically useful anyway permalink fedilink source parent [+] MCU_H8ER2@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] HornyOnMain@hexbear.net 44 points 3 years ago (1 child) I don't know about what they were saying exactly but we did have someone come in earlier and start by calling us intolerant tankies and then have a meltdown over some of our non binary users using neopronouns, I can find the link if you want it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 47 points 3 years ago (2 children) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] HornyOnMain@hexbear.net 43 points 3 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] kristina@hexbear.net 5 points 3 years ago lmao permalink fedilink source parent [–] Frank@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago (1 child) I meant to say libs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 2 points 3 years ago Yeah, I thought so… but then it makes no sense permalink fedilink source parent [–] TillieNeuen@hexbear.net 25 points 3 years ago (1 child) I think it's a typo for "libs," since n and b are next to each other on an English keyboard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 3 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, that makes no sense then. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TillieNeuen@hexbear.net 37 points 3 years ago (1 child) Like CriticalOtaku said in this thread, here on Hexbear, if someone says "libs," we mean liberal in the older sense of the word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) I see. Well, I guess that’s the problem with a federated social media system. Rules for the entire system, with identical subs, and never really knowing where you are. What’s this hexbear instance about? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] ZoomeristLeninist@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 9 points 3 years ago (3 children) So would it be a good place for a democratic socialist? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 35 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Yes for sure. If you mean actual democratic socialist ideology, like Evo Morales, Allende or Nelson Mandela, then yes. Hexbear is a left wing unity website. If you mean social democracy, such as the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, then probably not. Though you're always welcome to stick around and engage in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 21 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you agree that the west is currently the greatest threat to global socialism then this the place for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago we're mostly on the revolutionary socialist side of the spectrum but yeah, you'll be fine here. the inside jokes and cultural oddities will make more sense with time. welcome! permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 20 points 3 years ago (1 child) libs is shorthand for liberals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 1 point 3 years ago (2 children) Well, someone else said it means libertarian…. People shouldn’t use shorthand when so many other words in the same topic use the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Belden_Road_Initiative@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago It means people who subscribe to the failing economic theory of liberalism not just Democrats but Republicans and Libertarians too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 23 points 3 years ago (2 children) its a shared colloquial understanding on the english-speaking western internet that "lib/libs" is shorthand for "liberal/liberals" in the vast majority of cases, the person who told you it meant "libertarian" was probably looking for the word "lolbert" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 18 points 3 years ago My bad, I should have clarified that to the rest of the world outside of the US, "liberal" means "Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian". permalink fedilink source parent [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Oh goodness, lolbert? Is there a lolearnie? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) The political tendency in America that describe themselves as "Libertarians" are extremely individualist, pro-capitalists who are absolutists about private property and essentially believe that instead of a government all social entities should be private corporations that contract with each other and individuals to form society. Ie instead of a city having a civic government there would be a corporation that privately owns all the property and leases it, a corporation that owns the streets, a corporation that provides police and military services, but only to people who contracts. Many of them don't go that far, but strongly believe that there should be little or no government regulation or interference in the economy. It's a very unrealistic system and non-libertarians, ie almost all Leftists and almost all Democrats, along with a good proportion of Fascists (GOP and their allies) don't take Libertarians seriously. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 84 points 3 years ago* (3 children) I think he misspelled lib. Btw what we mean by liberals is the original political term for those who support capitalism, not the colloquial American synonym for Democrat that alt-right types use. Conservative and libertarians are also liberals strictly speaking because they also subscribe to the same basic underlying ideology. Edit: quoting the relevant part In Europe and Latin America, liberalism means a moderate form of classical liberalism and includes both conservative liberalism (centre-right liberalism) and social liberalism (centre-left liberalism). In North America, liberalism almost exclusively refers to social liberalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 82 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) Conservative and libertarians are also liberals strictly speaking because they also subscribe to the same basic underlying ideology. How can you say such a thing! There's a full 16pt difference in our preferred tax rates and we still can't agree on the exact specifications of the worker visa program for illegal residents permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 84 points 3 years ago (1 child) Old joke, the Soviet Union could’ve avoided collapse if instead of having one official state party, they had two, and they agreed on absolutely everything except abortion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 29 points 3 years ago (1 child) There's actually a lot to be said about the concept of "competitive" (not necessarily democratic) elections and how they increase the stability of a political system by shifting people's perceptions of what is wrong, that's part of what Fritz Bartel talks about in "The Triumph of Broken Promises", the neoliberal period imposed extremely harsh conditions on people but everybody went along in the end because they felt that they had a choice in the matter (lol) meanwhile the eastern block states wanted to try doing austerity but they knew the people would never stand for it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Also ties into Chomsky’s observation that compliance with a political economy regime is done by having a narrow band of acceptable opinions but fierce debate within the band. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago Didn't know he made that point, very astute permalink fedilink source parent [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 25 points 3 years ago (5 children) We really gotta get more unique words for things. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] aaro@hexbear.net 48 points 3 years ago* (2 children) Hey I just wanted to stop in and say thanks for being patient, the whole terminology thing around ideologies is one of the more confusing barriers to entry into leftist thought but you're working thru it like a champ You've already been linked the Wikipedia definition which is super helpful but I'm gonna paste the first bit again because it's worth reading more times, for fluent lefties as well: Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, constitutional government and privacy rights. Based on this, all democrats and pretty much all republicans and libertarians are liberals, and that's on purpose. This is what we mean when we throw punches at "libs" - we all believe that some of these qualities are good, but libs believe that all of these things are good - we don't terribly like things like "equality before the law" (it's just as bad for Jeff Bezos to steal a loaf of bread from a supermarket as it is for a houseless person), "freedom of the press/speech" (your freedom of the press is legally endowed on you just as it is to Elon Musk or Rupert Murdoch even though their actual freedom of the press is millions of times what yours is because they own billion dollar news and speech platforms), "right to private property" (you have the right to own dozens of resort properties just like Donald Trump does), etc. Liberalism - democrat, Republican, and libertarian - is built on the idea that everyone can use dollars and power and status to exercise their rights to whatever degree they want to, and one of our biggest reasons for calling them out under their shared umbrella of liberalism is that they all share the same fallacious worldview that allows people with more dollars to have more fundamental enshrined rights, and even though people with very few dollars can't actually exercise any of their fundamental enshrined rights, liberals pretend they have the same rights just because they could exercise them if they had more money. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Gotcha. Thanks for the additional information. Politics can get muddy real fast, and terms can be abused or misused to create confusion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago that's why we stick to the definitions used globally and historically and avoid the colloquial usage. culture changes but history is already written. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Civility@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago 🥰 permalink fedilink source parent [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 42 points 3 years ago (1 child) To be fair, this is more an American english thing. Re-quoting the relevant part of the Wikipedia article In Europe and Latin America, liberalism means a moderate form of classical liberalism and includes both conservative liberalism (centre-right liberalism) and social liberalism (centre-left liberalism). In North America, liberalism almost exclusively refers to social liberalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huf@hexbear.net 17 points 3 years ago (1 child) even that's not entirely accurate. in hungary for example, "libsi", "liberális" means what it does in mainstream american politics (rabid capitalists that are not necessarily against gay people existing). this isnt that surprising, since orban hired former republican campaign managers to build up his image/rhetoric permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 14 points 3 years ago I didn't really want to get into Overton Window stuff in a brief post but yes, good point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Frank@hexbear.net 38 points 3 years ago (1 child) It's a problem. Libertarians stole "libertarian" for the Anarchists. "Liberal" now means you want to paint a rainbow on the bomb. People think "Conservatism" is a real thing but Nazis aren't. Most people have no idea what Anarchism, Communism, or Socialism actually entail, let alone the enormous breadth of thouaght across the length. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago We just need a point system. Ohhh you’re a 230? Fuck you 200 class people! Haha 😛 permalink fedilink source parent [–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 38 points 3 years ago (1 child) Not really, terms should be historically constituted and there is a serious amount of self-codification among liberal theorists that makes the term extremely useful There are only eight subspecies of liberalism that actually matter to real world politics, and they cover everything between anarcho-capitalists to DNC blue no matter who libs Classical liberalism, utopian liberalism, social liberalism, neoliberalism, ordoliberalism, dirigisme, siege liberalism, and the mutated step-child fascism, these are the actual differentiations among the defenders of capitalism There is only confusion on this matter because utopian, social and neo liberals successfully appropriated a mountain of socialist and anarchist lingo and incoherently applied it to themselves. I don't blame them, liberalism is deprived of any genuine vision of human progress or solidarity, it wears the liberatory spirit of anti-capitalist ideologies like a carnival mask and as a result millions of potential radicals end up confused as to where they stand in the struggle over capitalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] panopticon@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago The popular American usage can just die as it isn't specifically useful anyway permalink fedilink source parent [+] MCU_H8ER2@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 82 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) Conservative and libertarians are also liberals strictly speaking because they also subscribe to the same basic underlying ideology. How can you say such a thing! There's a full 16pt difference in our preferred tax rates and we still can't agree on the exact specifications of the worker visa program for illegal residents permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 84 points 3 years ago (1 child) Old joke, the Soviet Union could’ve avoided collapse if instead of having one official state party, they had two, and they agreed on absolutely everything except abortion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 29 points 3 years ago (1 child) There's actually a lot to be said about the concept of "competitive" (not necessarily democratic) elections and how they increase the stability of a political system by shifting people's perceptions of what is wrong, that's part of what Fritz Bartel talks about in "The Triumph of Broken Promises", the neoliberal period imposed extremely harsh conditions on people but everybody went along in the end because they felt that they had a choice in the matter (lol) meanwhile the eastern block states wanted to try doing austerity but they knew the people would never stand for it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Also ties into Chomsky’s observation that compliance with a political economy regime is done by having a narrow band of acceptable opinions but fierce debate within the band. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago Didn't know he made that point, very astute permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 84 points 3 years ago (1 child) Old joke, the Soviet Union could’ve avoided collapse if instead of having one official state party, they had two, and they agreed on absolutely everything except abortion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 29 points 3 years ago (1 child) There's actually a lot to be said about the concept of "competitive" (not necessarily democratic) elections and how they increase the stability of a political system by shifting people's perceptions of what is wrong, that's part of what Fritz Bartel talks about in "The Triumph of Broken Promises", the neoliberal period imposed extremely harsh conditions on people but everybody went along in the end because they felt that they had a choice in the matter (lol) meanwhile the eastern block states wanted to try doing austerity but they knew the people would never stand for it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Also ties into Chomsky’s observation that compliance with a political economy regime is done by having a narrow band of acceptable opinions but fierce debate within the band. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago Didn't know he made that point, very astute permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tuga@hexbear.net 29 points 3 years ago (1 child) There's actually a lot to be said about the concept of "competitive" (not necessarily democratic) elections and how they increase the stability of a political system by shifting people's perceptions of what is wrong, that's part of what Fritz Bartel talks about in "The Triumph of Broken Promises", the neoliberal period imposed extremely harsh conditions on people but everybody went along in the end because they felt that they had a choice in the matter (lol) meanwhile the eastern block states wanted to try doing austerity but they knew the people would never stand for it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Also ties into Chomsky’s observation that compliance with a political economy regime is done by having a narrow band of acceptable opinions but fierce debate within the band. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago Didn't know he made that point, very astute permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Also ties into Chomsky’s observation that compliance with a political economy regime is done by having a narrow band of acceptable opinions but fierce debate within the band. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tuga@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago Didn't know he made that point, very astute permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tuga@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago Didn't know he made that point, very astute permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 25 points 3 years ago (5 children) We really gotta get more unique words for things. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] aaro@hexbear.net 48 points 3 years ago* (2 children) Hey I just wanted to stop in and say thanks for being patient, the whole terminology thing around ideologies is one of the more confusing barriers to entry into leftist thought but you're working thru it like a champ You've already been linked the Wikipedia definition which is super helpful but I'm gonna paste the first bit again because it's worth reading more times, for fluent lefties as well: Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, constitutional government and privacy rights. Based on this, all democrats and pretty much all republicans and libertarians are liberals, and that's on purpose. This is what we mean when we throw punches at "libs" - we all believe that some of these qualities are good, but libs believe that all of these things are good - we don't terribly like things like "equality before the law" (it's just as bad for Jeff Bezos to steal a loaf of bread from a supermarket as it is for a houseless person), "freedom of the press/speech" (your freedom of the press is legally endowed on you just as it is to Elon Musk or Rupert Murdoch even though their actual freedom of the press is millions of times what yours is because they own billion dollar news and speech platforms), "right to private property" (you have the right to own dozens of resort properties just like Donald Trump does), etc. Liberalism - democrat, Republican, and libertarian - is built on the idea that everyone can use dollars and power and status to exercise their rights to whatever degree they want to, and one of our biggest reasons for calling them out under their shared umbrella of liberalism is that they all share the same fallacious worldview that allows people with more dollars to have more fundamental enshrined rights, and even though people with very few dollars can't actually exercise any of their fundamental enshrined rights, liberals pretend they have the same rights just because they could exercise them if they had more money. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Gotcha. Thanks for the additional information. Politics can get muddy real fast, and terms can be abused or misused to create confusion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago that's why we stick to the definitions used globally and historically and avoid the colloquial usage. culture changes but history is already written. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Civility@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago 🥰 permalink fedilink source parent [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 42 points 3 years ago (1 child) To be fair, this is more an American english thing. Re-quoting the relevant part of the Wikipedia article In Europe and Latin America, liberalism means a moderate form of classical liberalism and includes both conservative liberalism (centre-right liberalism) and social liberalism (centre-left liberalism). In North America, liberalism almost exclusively refers to social liberalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huf@hexbear.net 17 points 3 years ago (1 child) even that's not entirely accurate. in hungary for example, "libsi", "liberális" means what it does in mainstream american politics (rabid capitalists that are not necessarily against gay people existing). this isnt that surprising, since orban hired former republican campaign managers to build up his image/rhetoric permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 14 points 3 years ago I didn't really want to get into Overton Window stuff in a brief post but yes, good point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Frank@hexbear.net 38 points 3 years ago (1 child) It's a problem. Libertarians stole "libertarian" for the Anarchists. "Liberal" now means you want to paint a rainbow on the bomb. People think "Conservatism" is a real thing but Nazis aren't. Most people have no idea what Anarchism, Communism, or Socialism actually entail, let alone the enormous breadth of thouaght across the length. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago We just need a point system. Ohhh you’re a 230? Fuck you 200 class people! Haha 😛 permalink fedilink source parent [–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 38 points 3 years ago (1 child) Not really, terms should be historically constituted and there is a serious amount of self-codification among liberal theorists that makes the term extremely useful There are only eight subspecies of liberalism that actually matter to real world politics, and they cover everything between anarcho-capitalists to DNC blue no matter who libs Classical liberalism, utopian liberalism, social liberalism, neoliberalism, ordoliberalism, dirigisme, siege liberalism, and the mutated step-child fascism, these are the actual differentiations among the defenders of capitalism There is only confusion on this matter because utopian, social and neo liberals successfully appropriated a mountain of socialist and anarchist lingo and incoherently applied it to themselves. I don't blame them, liberalism is deprived of any genuine vision of human progress or solidarity, it wears the liberatory spirit of anti-capitalist ideologies like a carnival mask and as a result millions of potential radicals end up confused as to where they stand in the struggle over capitalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] panopticon@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago The popular American usage can just die as it isn't specifically useful anyway permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aaro@hexbear.net 48 points 3 years ago* (2 children) Hey I just wanted to stop in and say thanks for being patient, the whole terminology thing around ideologies is one of the more confusing barriers to entry into leftist thought but you're working thru it like a champ You've already been linked the Wikipedia definition which is super helpful but I'm gonna paste the first bit again because it's worth reading more times, for fluent lefties as well: Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, constitutional government and privacy rights. Based on this, all democrats and pretty much all republicans and libertarians are liberals, and that's on purpose. This is what we mean when we throw punches at "libs" - we all believe that some of these qualities are good, but libs believe that all of these things are good - we don't terribly like things like "equality before the law" (it's just as bad for Jeff Bezos to steal a loaf of bread from a supermarket as it is for a houseless person), "freedom of the press/speech" (your freedom of the press is legally endowed on you just as it is to Elon Musk or Rupert Murdoch even though their actual freedom of the press is millions of times what yours is because they own billion dollar news and speech platforms), "right to private property" (you have the right to own dozens of resort properties just like Donald Trump does), etc. Liberalism - democrat, Republican, and libertarian - is built on the idea that everyone can use dollars and power and status to exercise their rights to whatever degree they want to, and one of our biggest reasons for calling them out under their shared umbrella of liberalism is that they all share the same fallacious worldview that allows people with more dollars to have more fundamental enshrined rights, and even though people with very few dollars can't actually exercise any of their fundamental enshrined rights, liberals pretend they have the same rights just because they could exercise them if they had more money. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Gotcha. Thanks for the additional information. Politics can get muddy real fast, and terms can be abused or misused to create confusion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago that's why we stick to the definitions used globally and historically and avoid the colloquial usage. culture changes but history is already written. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Civility@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago 🥰 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) Gotcha. Thanks for the additional information. Politics can get muddy real fast, and terms can be abused or misused to create confusion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago that's why we stick to the definitions used globally and historically and avoid the colloquial usage. culture changes but history is already written. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] silent_water@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago that's why we stick to the definitions used globally and historically and avoid the colloquial usage. culture changes but history is already written. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 42 points 3 years ago (1 child) To be fair, this is more an American english thing. Re-quoting the relevant part of the Wikipedia article In Europe and Latin America, liberalism means a moderate form of classical liberalism and includes both conservative liberalism (centre-right liberalism) and social liberalism (centre-left liberalism). In North America, liberalism almost exclusively refers to social liberalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huf@hexbear.net 17 points 3 years ago (1 child) even that's not entirely accurate. in hungary for example, "libsi", "liberális" means what it does in mainstream american politics (rabid capitalists that are not necessarily against gay people existing). this isnt that surprising, since orban hired former republican campaign managers to build up his image/rhetoric permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 14 points 3 years ago I didn't really want to get into Overton Window stuff in a brief post but yes, good point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] huf@hexbear.net 17 points 3 years ago (1 child) even that's not entirely accurate. in hungary for example, "libsi", "liberális" means what it does in mainstream american politics (rabid capitalists that are not necessarily against gay people existing). this isnt that surprising, since orban hired former republican campaign managers to build up his image/rhetoric permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 14 points 3 years ago I didn't really want to get into Overton Window stuff in a brief post but yes, good point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 14 points 3 years ago I didn't really want to get into Overton Window stuff in a brief post but yes, good point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Frank@hexbear.net 38 points 3 years ago (1 child) It's a problem. Libertarians stole "libertarian" for the Anarchists. "Liberal" now means you want to paint a rainbow on the bomb. People think "Conservatism" is a real thing but Nazis aren't. Most people have no idea what Anarchism, Communism, or Socialism actually entail, let alone the enormous breadth of thouaght across the length. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago We just need a point system. Ohhh you’re a 230? Fuck you 200 class people! Haha 😛 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago We just need a point system. Ohhh you’re a 230? Fuck you 200 class people! Haha 😛 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 38 points 3 years ago (1 child) Not really, terms should be historically constituted and there is a serious amount of self-codification among liberal theorists that makes the term extremely useful There are only eight subspecies of liberalism that actually matter to real world politics, and they cover everything between anarcho-capitalists to DNC blue no matter who libs Classical liberalism, utopian liberalism, social liberalism, neoliberalism, ordoliberalism, dirigisme, siege liberalism, and the mutated step-child fascism, these are the actual differentiations among the defenders of capitalism There is only confusion on this matter because utopian, social and neo liberals successfully appropriated a mountain of socialist and anarchist lingo and incoherently applied it to themselves. I don't blame them, liberalism is deprived of any genuine vision of human progress or solidarity, it wears the liberatory spirit of anti-capitalist ideologies like a carnival mask and as a result millions of potential radicals end up confused as to where they stand in the struggle over capitalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] panopticon@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago The popular American usage can just die as it isn't specifically useful anyway permalink fedilink source parent
[+] MCU_H8ER2@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HornyOnMain@hexbear.net 44 points 3 years ago (1 child) I don't know about what they were saying exactly but we did have someone come in earlier and start by calling us intolerant tankies and then have a meltdown over some of our non binary users using neopronouns, I can find the link if you want it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 47 points 3 years ago (2 children) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] HornyOnMain@hexbear.net 43 points 3 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] kristina@hexbear.net 5 points 3 years ago lmao permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 47 points 3 years ago (2 children) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] HornyOnMain@hexbear.net 43 points 3 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] kristina@hexbear.net 5 points 3 years ago lmao permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Frank@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago (1 child) I meant to say libs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 2 points 3 years ago Yeah, I thought so… but then it makes no sense permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 2 points 3 years ago Yeah, I thought so… but then it makes no sense permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TillieNeuen@hexbear.net 25 points 3 years ago (1 child) I think it's a typo for "libs," since n and b are next to each other on an English keyboard. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 3 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, that makes no sense then. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TillieNeuen@hexbear.net 37 points 3 years ago (1 child) Like CriticalOtaku said in this thread, here on Hexbear, if someone says "libs," we mean liberal in the older sense of the word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) I see. Well, I guess that’s the problem with a federated social media system. Rules for the entire system, with identical subs, and never really knowing where you are. What’s this hexbear instance about? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] ZoomeristLeninist@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 9 points 3 years ago (3 children) So would it be a good place for a democratic socialist? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 35 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Yes for sure. If you mean actual democratic socialist ideology, like Evo Morales, Allende or Nelson Mandela, then yes. Hexbear is a left wing unity website. If you mean social democracy, such as the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, then probably not. Though you're always welcome to stick around and engage in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 21 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you agree that the west is currently the greatest threat to global socialism then this the place for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago we're mostly on the revolutionary socialist side of the spectrum but yeah, you'll be fine here. the inside jokes and cultural oddities will make more sense with time. welcome! permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 20 points 3 years ago (1 child) libs is shorthand for liberals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 1 point 3 years ago (2 children) Well, someone else said it means libertarian…. People shouldn’t use shorthand when so many other words in the same topic use the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Belden_Road_Initiative@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago It means people who subscribe to the failing economic theory of liberalism not just Democrats but Republicans and Libertarians too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 23 points 3 years ago (2 children) its a shared colloquial understanding on the english-speaking western internet that "lib/libs" is shorthand for "liberal/liberals" in the vast majority of cases, the person who told you it meant "libertarian" was probably looking for the word "lolbert" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 18 points 3 years ago My bad, I should have clarified that to the rest of the world outside of the US, "liberal" means "Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian". permalink fedilink source parent [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Oh goodness, lolbert? Is there a lolearnie? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) The political tendency in America that describe themselves as "Libertarians" are extremely individualist, pro-capitalists who are absolutists about private property and essentially believe that instead of a government all social entities should be private corporations that contract with each other and individuals to form society. Ie instead of a city having a civic government there would be a corporation that privately owns all the property and leases it, a corporation that owns the streets, a corporation that provides police and military services, but only to people who contracts. Many of them don't go that far, but strongly believe that there should be little or no government regulation or interference in the economy. It's a very unrealistic system and non-libertarians, ie almost all Leftists and almost all Democrats, along with a good proportion of Fascists (GOP and their allies) don't take Libertarians seriously. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 3 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, that makes no sense then. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TillieNeuen@hexbear.net 37 points 3 years ago (1 child) Like CriticalOtaku said in this thread, here on Hexbear, if someone says "libs," we mean liberal in the older sense of the word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) I see. Well, I guess that’s the problem with a federated social media system. Rules for the entire system, with identical subs, and never really knowing where you are. What’s this hexbear instance about? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] ZoomeristLeninist@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 9 points 3 years ago (3 children) So would it be a good place for a democratic socialist? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 35 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Yes for sure. If you mean actual democratic socialist ideology, like Evo Morales, Allende or Nelson Mandela, then yes. Hexbear is a left wing unity website. If you mean social democracy, such as the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, then probably not. Though you're always welcome to stick around and engage in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 21 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you agree that the west is currently the greatest threat to global socialism then this the place for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago we're mostly on the revolutionary socialist side of the spectrum but yeah, you'll be fine here. the inside jokes and cultural oddities will make more sense with time. welcome! permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 20 points 3 years ago (1 child) libs is shorthand for liberals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 1 point 3 years ago (2 children) Well, someone else said it means libertarian…. People shouldn’t use shorthand when so many other words in the same topic use the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Belden_Road_Initiative@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago It means people who subscribe to the failing economic theory of liberalism not just Democrats but Republicans and Libertarians too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 23 points 3 years ago (2 children) its a shared colloquial understanding on the english-speaking western internet that "lib/libs" is shorthand for "liberal/liberals" in the vast majority of cases, the person who told you it meant "libertarian" was probably looking for the word "lolbert" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 18 points 3 years ago My bad, I should have clarified that to the rest of the world outside of the US, "liberal" means "Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian". permalink fedilink source parent [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Oh goodness, lolbert? Is there a lolearnie? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) The political tendency in America that describe themselves as "Libertarians" are extremely individualist, pro-capitalists who are absolutists about private property and essentially believe that instead of a government all social entities should be private corporations that contract with each other and individuals to form society. Ie instead of a city having a civic government there would be a corporation that privately owns all the property and leases it, a corporation that owns the streets, a corporation that provides police and military services, but only to people who contracts. Many of them don't go that far, but strongly believe that there should be little or no government regulation or interference in the economy. It's a very unrealistic system and non-libertarians, ie almost all Leftists and almost all Democrats, along with a good proportion of Fascists (GOP and their allies) don't take Libertarians seriously. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TillieNeuen@hexbear.net 37 points 3 years ago (1 child) Like CriticalOtaku said in this thread, here on Hexbear, if someone says "libs," we mean liberal in the older sense of the word. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) I see. Well, I guess that’s the problem with a federated social media system. Rules for the entire system, with identical subs, and never really knowing where you are. What’s this hexbear instance about? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] ZoomeristLeninist@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 9 points 3 years ago (3 children) So would it be a good place for a democratic socialist? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 35 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Yes for sure. If you mean actual democratic socialist ideology, like Evo Morales, Allende or Nelson Mandela, then yes. Hexbear is a left wing unity website. If you mean social democracy, such as the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, then probably not. Though you're always welcome to stick around and engage in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 21 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you agree that the west is currently the greatest threat to global socialism then this the place for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago we're mostly on the revolutionary socialist side of the spectrum but yeah, you'll be fine here. the inside jokes and cultural oddities will make more sense with time. welcome! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) I see. Well, I guess that’s the problem with a federated social media system. Rules for the entire system, with identical subs, and never really knowing where you are. What’s this hexbear instance about? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] ZoomeristLeninist@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 9 points 3 years ago (3 children) So would it be a good place for a democratic socialist? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 35 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Yes for sure. If you mean actual democratic socialist ideology, like Evo Morales, Allende or Nelson Mandela, then yes. Hexbear is a left wing unity website. If you mean social democracy, such as the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, then probably not. Though you're always welcome to stick around and engage in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 21 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you agree that the west is currently the greatest threat to global socialism then this the place for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago we're mostly on the revolutionary socialist side of the spectrum but yeah, you'll be fine here. the inside jokes and cultural oddities will make more sense with time. welcome! permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ZoomeristLeninist@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 9 points 3 years ago (3 children) So would it be a good place for a democratic socialist? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 35 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Yes for sure. If you mean actual democratic socialist ideology, like Evo Morales, Allende or Nelson Mandela, then yes. Hexbear is a left wing unity website. If you mean social democracy, such as the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, then probably not. Though you're always welcome to stick around and engage in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 21 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you agree that the west is currently the greatest threat to global socialism then this the place for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago we're mostly on the revolutionary socialist side of the spectrum but yeah, you'll be fine here. the inside jokes and cultural oddities will make more sense with time. welcome! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 9 points 3 years ago (3 children) So would it be a good place for a democratic socialist? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 35 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Yes for sure. If you mean actual democratic socialist ideology, like Evo Morales, Allende or Nelson Mandela, then yes. Hexbear is a left wing unity website. If you mean social democracy, such as the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, then probably not. Though you're always welcome to stick around and engage in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 21 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you agree that the west is currently the greatest threat to global socialism then this the place for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago we're mostly on the revolutionary socialist side of the spectrum but yeah, you'll be fine here. the inside jokes and cultural oddities will make more sense with time. welcome! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 35 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Yes for sure. If you mean actual democratic socialist ideology, like Evo Morales, Allende or Nelson Mandela, then yes. Hexbear is a left wing unity website. If you mean social democracy, such as the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, then probably not. Though you're always welcome to stick around and engage in good faith. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) No no, not social democracy. 😅 These damn similar names! I’m a political politician, not a politician political!! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 22 points 3 years ago Yeah all the terms are hard to get a grasp of permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 21 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you agree that the west is currently the greatest threat to global socialism then this the place for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 8 points 3 years ago (2 children) Well, west? I mean, I think the corrupt rich from everywhere on the globe are the problem, and while they may give lip service to the east/west, they’re all-in together. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent [–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 24 points 3 years ago Eeh...close enough? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago The bourgeoisie aren't anyone's friends but their own, but there are places where they are more and less in charge, and there are larger and smaller coalitions, with the larger naturally being more malicious, though they tend to export that malice further from where they rest their heads for reasons of security. QED western imperialism permalink fedilink source parent
[–] silent_water@hexbear.net 15 points 3 years ago we're mostly on the revolutionary socialist side of the spectrum but yeah, you'll be fine here. the inside jokes and cultural oddities will make more sense with time. welcome! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 20 points 3 years ago (1 child) libs is shorthand for liberals permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 1 point 3 years ago (2 children) Well, someone else said it means libertarian…. People shouldn’t use shorthand when so many other words in the same topic use the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Belden_Road_Initiative@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago It means people who subscribe to the failing economic theory of liberalism not just Democrats but Republicans and Libertarians too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 23 points 3 years ago (2 children) its a shared colloquial understanding on the english-speaking western internet that "lib/libs" is shorthand for "liberal/liberals" in the vast majority of cases, the person who told you it meant "libertarian" was probably looking for the word "lolbert" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 18 points 3 years ago My bad, I should have clarified that to the rest of the world outside of the US, "liberal" means "Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian". permalink fedilink source parent [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Oh goodness, lolbert? Is there a lolearnie? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) The political tendency in America that describe themselves as "Libertarians" are extremely individualist, pro-capitalists who are absolutists about private property and essentially believe that instead of a government all social entities should be private corporations that contract with each other and individuals to form society. Ie instead of a city having a civic government there would be a corporation that privately owns all the property and leases it, a corporation that owns the streets, a corporation that provides police and military services, but only to people who contracts. Many of them don't go that far, but strongly believe that there should be little or no government regulation or interference in the economy. It's a very unrealistic system and non-libertarians, ie almost all Leftists and almost all Democrats, along with a good proportion of Fascists (GOP and their allies) don't take Libertarians seriously. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 1 point 3 years ago (2 children) Well, someone else said it means libertarian…. People shouldn’t use shorthand when so many other words in the same topic use the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Belden_Road_Initiative@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago It means people who subscribe to the failing economic theory of liberalism not just Democrats but Republicans and Libertarians too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 23 points 3 years ago (2 children) its a shared colloquial understanding on the english-speaking western internet that "lib/libs" is shorthand for "liberal/liberals" in the vast majority of cases, the person who told you it meant "libertarian" was probably looking for the word "lolbert" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 18 points 3 years ago My bad, I should have clarified that to the rest of the world outside of the US, "liberal" means "Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian". permalink fedilink source parent [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Oh goodness, lolbert? Is there a lolearnie? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) The political tendency in America that describe themselves as "Libertarians" are extremely individualist, pro-capitalists who are absolutists about private property and essentially believe that instead of a government all social entities should be private corporations that contract with each other and individuals to form society. Ie instead of a city having a civic government there would be a corporation that privately owns all the property and leases it, a corporation that owns the streets, a corporation that provides police and military services, but only to people who contracts. Many of them don't go that far, but strongly believe that there should be little or no government regulation or interference in the economy. It's a very unrealistic system and non-libertarians, ie almost all Leftists and almost all Democrats, along with a good proportion of Fascists (GOP and their allies) don't take Libertarians seriously. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Belden_Road_Initiative@hexbear.net 39 points 3 years ago It means people who subscribe to the failing economic theory of liberalism not just Democrats but Republicans and Libertarians too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 23 points 3 years ago (2 children) its a shared colloquial understanding on the english-speaking western internet that "lib/libs" is shorthand for "liberal/liberals" in the vast majority of cases, the person who told you it meant "libertarian" was probably looking for the word "lolbert" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 18 points 3 years ago My bad, I should have clarified that to the rest of the world outside of the US, "liberal" means "Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian". permalink fedilink source parent [–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Oh goodness, lolbert? Is there a lolearnie? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) The political tendency in America that describe themselves as "Libertarians" are extremely individualist, pro-capitalists who are absolutists about private property and essentially believe that instead of a government all social entities should be private corporations that contract with each other and individuals to form society. Ie instead of a city having a civic government there would be a corporation that privately owns all the property and leases it, a corporation that owns the streets, a corporation that provides police and military services, but only to people who contracts. Many of them don't go that far, but strongly believe that there should be little or no government regulation or interference in the economy. It's a very unrealistic system and non-libertarians, ie almost all Leftists and almost all Democrats, along with a good proportion of Fascists (GOP and their allies) don't take Libertarians seriously. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 18 points 3 years ago My bad, I should have clarified that to the rest of the world outside of the US, "liberal" means "Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian". permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Oh goodness, lolbert? Is there a lolearnie? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) The political tendency in America that describe themselves as "Libertarians" are extremely individualist, pro-capitalists who are absolutists about private property and essentially believe that instead of a government all social entities should be private corporations that contract with each other and individuals to form society. Ie instead of a city having a civic government there would be a corporation that privately owns all the property and leases it, a corporation that owns the streets, a corporation that provides police and military services, but only to people who contracts. Many of them don't go that far, but strongly believe that there should be little or no government regulation or interference in the economy. It's a very unrealistic system and non-libertarians, ie almost all Leftists and almost all Democrats, along with a good proportion of Fascists (GOP and their allies) don't take Libertarians seriously. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) The political tendency in America that describe themselves as "Libertarians" are extremely individualist, pro-capitalists who are absolutists about private property and essentially believe that instead of a government all social entities should be private corporations that contract with each other and individuals to form society. Ie instead of a city having a civic government there would be a corporation that privately owns all the property and leases it, a corporation that owns the streets, a corporation that provides police and military services, but only to people who contracts. Many of them don't go that far, but strongly believe that there should be little or no government regulation or interference in the economy. It's a very unrealistic system and non-libertarians, ie almost all Leftists and almost all Democrats, along with a good proportion of Fascists (GOP and their allies) don't take Libertarians seriously. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent
[–] silent_water@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago also they can't shut the fuck up about age of consent laws so around here "pedos" is pretty much always implied when talking about permalink fedilink source parent