askchapo

Ask them if the police should have droned the school in Uvalde to take out the shooter.

"If Hamas used you as a shield, would you be okay with Israel shooting you?"

"If a bank robber uses hostages as a shield, would you be okay with police shooting the hostages?"

The other thing that Zionists pair with the human shields argument is saying that Hamas embeds itself into schools and hospitals so that Israel must attack schools and hospitals. Hamas is the governing military of Gaza, of course Hamas is going to be in schools and in hospitals. In the US, the US military is in US schools and US hospitals. In Israel, the IOF military is in Israel schools and Israel hospitals. Israel is not permitted to attack schools and hospitals even if Hamas is present.

"How barbaric for israelies to shoot anyway knowing there's innocents in the fire zone"

Shame them.

online

pig poop balls

in person

keep a stack of business cards with pig poop balls printed on them and hand them out to people with bad takes

What would be the point of using human shields when the IOF has shown absolutely no hesitation in killing civilians anyways.

Using human shields implies that you don't have many years of evidence that said shields won't be shot straight through. The IDF doesn't even let Israeli hostages slow their butchering, much less any Palestinian. Anyone still saying the "human shields" bullshit to defend carpet bombing is deranged and probably not worth your time.

What evidence is there that Hamas is really using people as human shields?

... And weigh that against the mountains of evidence of israel's disregard for Palestinian life and wellbeing:

• Can they really claim "human shields" when israel is dropping bombs on densely populated areas? What about when they bomb refugee camps, clinics, hospitals, evacuation routes, or designated safe zones? Or when they drop bombs on members of Hamas in their family homes?

• What about the infants israel left dead and rotting in al-Shifa Hospital? And how israel couldn't produce any evidence that Hamas was actually using that hospital as a base?

• What about the israeli hostages crying for help and waving white flags that the IOF murdered?

• What about the mass starvation? The restriction of food, water, electricity, medicine, and other humanitarian aid? The repeated targetting of aid workers? Or the aid trucks blocked at the border, or worse, picked apart by israeli settlers? Does that not contradict the narrative that israel is only after Hamas?

• Oh, but the warning pamphlets! Like when israel tells the sick, starved, and traumatized Palestinians that they have 24 hours to walk 20km from one (former) safe zone to the next one, and then they start bombing them in 12 hours?

Any moral and honest person can see that israel has gone above and beyond to hurt as many Palestinians as possible - so why the fuck are these vague claims about "human shields" even taken seriously?

But what they're right? Maybe Hamas has taken (tens of) thousands of fellow Palestinians as human shields, so why can't israel produce any evidence of that? Why is israel restricting journalists or investigators from entering Gaza or the West Bank? Why are they repeatedly killing journalists? Surely, if what they say is true, it would benefit them to show what is happening, but instead they take every step to hide what is happening from everyone.

Say PROVIDE EVIDENCE

In Finkelstein's "Gaza: An Inquest Into Its Martyrdom", he notes that have been investigations into the use of human shields by Hamas by orgs such as Amnesty. They found no evidence that Hamas used human shields. However, they did find evidence that the IDF used human shields.

Also, why would Hamas possibly use human "shields" when Israel have absolutely no qualms with killing civilians?

By not acknowledging the fascists who still support israel. They’ve already made their mind up

israel literally flattened gaza, is the ground hamas?

Ask them why the israeli Ministry of Defense, their military command and a legit target in a conflict, sits right in the middle of Tel Aviv, surrounded by civilian buildings.

i think videos of the iof using palestinians as human shields are fairly illustrative on this point

"if a criminal holed up in your house the army would be right to bomb your house and kill you"

it's victim blaming, literally blaming the civilians for being in the way, but where the fuck else are they supposed to go?

They get pushed to rafah an then israel starts to bomb rafah. I guess they expect them to "turn on and give up hamas" but what if... what if there isn't any fucking hamas? what if israel is just bombing and demanding leaders who never existed, aren't there, or are already dead? and how is it the civilians' responsibility anyway when israel could simply not bomb them

The same people claiming that Hamas uses human shields in Gaza claimed the Taliban used human shields in Afghanistan, claimed Saddam used human shields in Iraq, claimed the Viet Cong used human shields in Vietnam, etc. It's just a "Look what you made me do" excuse for the occupying force killing innocent people.

killing the person saying it

It's worth looking at past times when Israel has used this argument. https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/special-sessions/session9/fact-finding-mission

The Mission’s attention has been drawn to a well-known incident in which women and children followed calls to gather on the roof of the house of a Palestinian man who had been informed by the Israeli authorities that his house would be targeted. This incident has been documented in video footage in the public domain and is referred to in submissions received by the Mission as evidence of the use of human shields. The Mission notes, however, that the incident occurred in 2007. No such incidents are alleged by the Israeli Government with regard to the military operations that began on 27 December 2008. The Mission received no reports of such incidents from other sources. On the contrary, in one case investigated by the Mission, a Hamas official received a phone call from the Israeli armed forces to the effect that his house would soon be targeted. He evacuated the house with his family and alerted the neighbours to the imminent threat so that they, too, were able to leave their homes before the missile did indeed strike

Finally, on this issue, it is relevant to mention that the Israeli Government has produced no visual or other evidence to support its allegation that Palestinian combatants “mingle routinely with civilians in order to cover their movements”.

486. The Mission is unable to make any determination on the general allegation that Palestinian armed groups used mosques for military purposes. It notes that, in the one incident it investigated of an Israeli attack on a mosque, it found no indication that the mosque was so used.

487. On the basis of the investigations it has conducted, the Mission did not find any evidence to support the allegations that hospital facilities were used by the Gaza authorities or by Palestinian armed groups to shield military activities and that ambulances were used to transport combatants or for other military purposes.

488. On the basis of the information it gathered, the Mission found no indication that the civilian population was forced by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups to remain in areas under attack from the Israeli armed forces

And so on. Page 218 onwards, on the other hand, describes the IDF using Palestinians as human shields.

So what about since Oct. 7th? Here's Amnesty International's findings on the investigation of three strikes with heavy civilian casualties:

In all three cases, Amnesty International did not find any evidence that there had been any military targets in or around the locations targeted by the Israeli military, raising serious concerns that these attacks amount to direct attacks on civilians and civilian objects, which are war crimes. Israel has not provided any information about the attacks in Rafah, and has only provided general allegations, which it later contradicted, regarding the attack on al-Maghazi.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/israel-opt-israeli-air-strikes-that-killed-44-civilians-further-evidence-of-war-crimes-new-investigation/

Meanwhile, there are numerous examples of Israelis using Palestinians as human shields. Marching Palestinians in front of them as they move into territory. Sending a Palestinian into a hospital to warn them to evacuate, and then shooting that same man dead when he left. We know that IDF operatives dressed as doctors and nurses and entered a civilian hospital to shoot patients in their bed. IN THE WEST BANK.

Are there Hamas installations in close proximity to civilian buildings? Gaza is one of most densely populated areas on earth, so it would be impossible for that not to be the case. But it also wouldn't be unusual, and there are IDF facilities near civilian buildings as well. My city has an army barracks in a fucking residential area, I suppose that justifies my liquidation in the event of a war then.

Because all this doesn't even touch on the fact that this argument is trotted out to justify the unjustifiable: "They were hiding amongst children, so we had to kill all the children"

An argument that is morally vacuous at best. Apply it to any other situation: "There was a shooting in a school so we bombed the school."

Anyone who still says this can face the

Decolonize Palestine has an article for debunking hasbra

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/palestinians-use-human-shields/

You can link to this article from an israeli outlet about how Israel uses AI to decide who they deem Hamas and not and where army officials admit that they don't give a fuck about the lives of those "human shields". Also you can link to the followup where it's revealed that they have a different algorithm that highlights when the supposed Hamas militants arrive home so they can be bombed with their families (and other "human shields" who happen to live there). And then ask if there is such a huge and scary tunnel system that apparently lies exclusively under hospitals and schools, why is Hamas still active after all these have been destroyed. And then you can point out the hypocrisy of them not giving a shit about the supposed "human shields", they just don't want to see Israel being held accountable for the genocide they're doing.

Or PPB. PPB will do.

Human shields is not just a way to retroactively justifiy civilian deaths within a military target. It is also used as a way for the premeditated murder of civilians while using military target as an excuse.

So when Israel kills hundreds within a civilian refugee camp to kill one military target/hostile, that is using the military target as an excuse for destroying and terrorizing the population. e.g: (Wolf Blitzer/IDF spokesman bombing a refugee camp) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyqFFsRifFM&t=2s

https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-197-the-human-shields-canard-as-catch-all-colonial-absolution

I guess compare them to their enemies? Put the two statements "Russia declared LGBTQ+ as a terrorist movement because the CIA (allegedly) uses LGBTQ+ organisations as fronts for spying" and "Israel kills Palestinian civilians because Hamas (allegedly) hides behind them" together. Ask why they think the latter is morally justified but not the former.

Israel uses Kibbutzes as barracks for troops of the IDF which makes them defacto military targets. It is the literal definition of using human shields. Also what good is it for Hamas to use human shields if Israel’s willing to kill them anyways?

The "most moral army in the world" would presumably hold their fire then, rather than just killing the civilians.

I mean I would recommend going to extreme measures to avoid any person who makes these arguments in person. They are quite literally openly "justifying" the murder of children and the destruction of an entire society. I don't care what their biases and motivations are: the human shields bullshit has been thoroughly destroyed since even 10/7 including many MSM segments.

But if you feel the need to converse with fascists, I guess you could say "isn't the point of a human shield to prevent the aggressor from shooting? If a bank robber took a hostage, do you support the cops shooting the hostage in the head a dozen times just to maybe hit the robber?" Or "Who is killing the people in Gaza? Is Hamas shooting their own friends' babies or it is Israel doing it?" Continue down this line. They usually flip in about one or two layers to just outright "I don't care. I hope they all die." Which is unfortunately the best you can hope for. For the fascists to be honest in their beliefs instead of hiding. Some will continue to just repeat "No Hamas is forcing the Israelis to kill kids." You could say to them: "The Nazis justified murdering babies and millions of innocent men and women by saying it was self defense of the Aryan Germans. They said they had no choice and these "subhumans" forced them to kill them."

GDF did a whole video on this

The correct answer to your question:

“Hamas does not use human shields, they use deez?”

Here's the idea behind "human shield".

-Person A wants to do violence against Person B.

-Person B hides behind Person C, assuming that Person A respects the life and well being of Person C MORE than wanting to do violence to Person B.

So, cop goes after a robber and says, "Freeze or I'll shoot!" The robber grabs a customer, expecting that the cop won't shoot because the bullet will likely hit the customer instead of the robber. Cop refuses to pull the trigger because its their responsibility to not harm the customer MORE than shooting the robber. This is an example of human shielding.

If the robber expected the cop to not worry about harming the customer and fire, the robber isn't using the customer as a human shield.

So the question becomes... what about Israel's actions toward Palestinian civilians matches the idea of a "human shield?" The answer is nothing.

Hamas builds a command post underneath a hospital full of Palestinian civilians? Israel will not hesitate to attack the hospital, damaging its ability to function as a hospital as well as killing the patients.

A Hamas political/military leader is positively ID'd but is at home with their family or out buying groceries? Israel will drop a bomb or fire a missile at that location, without hesitation, maiming or killing everybody.

A Palestinian resistance operation launches a salvo of rockets from some blasted out building in the north of a city? Israel will drop bombs on Palestinian refugees in the south of the city.

There are videos photos of Israeli troops bringing Palestinian prisoners to an unsecured location and ordering them to walk around checking the doors and rooms for traps or resistance fighters.

Peaceful demonstrations by Palestinians have been met with sniper fire that has killed people in wheel chairs and walking on crutches, killed medics and others trying to render aid to those shot, and maimed other demonstrators by shooting them in the legs.

Zionism requires an ethno state of a Jewish majority. By its very nature, ALL Palestinians are unworthy of existence as equals with Israelis. So it doesn't make sense to use the human shielding argument against Hamas as the state of Israel doesn't actually put a priority on ANY Palestinian life. Israeli occupation forces will kill any Palestinian whether they are a member of a militant resistance faction or just some old man trying to get a loaf of bread to eat for the day.

With a flurry of punches or a brick

Israeli "human shields" rhetoric is just propaganda to justify bombing civilian population centers in their apartheid districts, which is always 100% of those districts because they're just large concentration camps.

Whenever I heard this argument, I assumed they meant Hamas was firing their weapons while making a Palestinian or Israeli stand in front of them. But then I looked up videos and images and it seems to me “human shields” refer to other Palestinians consensually standing around fighters and cheering them on as they shoot at the IDF.