this post was submitted on 22 May 2025
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chapotraphouse

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

Like this subject, most of the problematic readers were not concerned if their literal translations of Bleak House were not coherent, so obvious logical errors never seemed to affect them. In fact, none of the readers in this category ever questioned their own interpretations of figures of speech, no matter how irrational the results.

This is the more troubling bit than not recognizing archaic English (I get why the one kid assumed Michaelmas was a name). Not being able to recognize that one has presented a contradictory argument speaks to a severe deficit in reasoning. I’m not sure if that’s a failure of education or a reflection of a society that presents introspection and self-criticism as weakness.

However, I do want to push back a little on this:

In the end, the lesson is clear: if we teachers in the university ignore our students’ actual reading levels, we run the risk of passing out diplomas to students who have not mastered reading complex texts and who, as a result, might find that their literacy skills prevent them from achieving their professional goals and personal dreams.

This begs the question, what are the professional goals that are stymied by not being able to deconstruct Dickensian prose? Is this something that major publishing houses care about when hiring people? If these kids are able to graduate and then go on to have successful careers despite being below what’s considered “standard,” is it possible that the standard is simply irrelevant to “real world” demands? That these kids are simply prioritizing what their “professional goals” demand rather than being incompetent?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

With your last point, I think there is a massive disconnect between how the university views its purpose, and what the society the students graduate into actually is. Of course the major publishers don't care if you can deconstruct Dickens, they pay millions of dollars for trite ghost written crap because it sells.

Arguably if you are an English major, you should leave with the ability to read dense texts, including archaic ones, but I don't really blame the students for seeing that it doesn't really matter because society at large does not care and they will graduate whether they can parse Dickens or not.

This all just results in a less literate society though, and I think that's a net negative overall.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 19 hours ago

I mean, yeah it would be a more literate society if most English majors could parse Dickens. But I don’t know if it’s less literate than back when most people didn’t even touch a college-level English course.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

I get why the one kid assumed Michaelmas was a name

Just to force Hexbears to learn what it is, Michaelmas is the festival of Saint Michael on September 29th, and thus Michaelmas Term refers to a (university) fall semester.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

If your professional goals are becoming an English professor (which is what most English professors assume an English major should want), then this is definitely a barrier.

Otherwise, eh. I think colleges have become too vocationally focused and everyone's trying to put a dollar value on being able to understand and interpret the human condition in way that goes beyond Fascism's bland and flattened take on the concrete and coming up empty, and then trying to figure out how to dress up what they're doing as important to The Machinery so they can keep getting their grant money.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

There’s a cognitive dissonance where academia can’t decide if it’s for white collar vocational training or for intellectual pursuit to further society and individuals. So we end up with this sort of half baked of one, not quite there of the other situation.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 16 hours ago

And then in reality it's neither, it's a bunch of people drawing faulty conclusions from bad data.