this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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I can’t give more approval for this woman, she handled everything so well.

The backstory is that Cloudflare overhired and wanted to reduce headcount, rightsize, whatever terrible HR wording you choose. Instead of admitting that this was a layoff, which would grant her things like severance and unemployment - they tried to tell her that her performance was lacking.

And for most of us (myself included) we would angrily accept it and trash the company online. Not her, she goes directly against them. It of course doesn’t go anywhere because HR is a bunch of robots with no emotions that just parrot what papa company tells them to, but she still says what all of us wish we did.

(Warning, if you've ever been laid off this is a bit enraging and can bring up some feelings)

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[–] [email protected] 257 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

A story from back when I worked in HR. Finance handed HR a list of teams to reduce. HR saw who had lowest performance metrics or was most recently hired and earmrked them to be fired. Then HR emailed the managers and said, 'we want you to follow around Angela and Brian today, the first mistake they make, write it up and terminate them'. The company had laid off too many people and several states it operated in warned the company they would seek payment if too many more ex-employees filed for unemployment insurance.

Most employees skewed right politically and wouldn't dream of fighting the company for their rightfully due unemployment benefits since they legitimately thought it was their fault, and many thought UI was socialism anyway.

After witnessing this I immediately began switching careers.

Remember folks, HR is not your friend, HR exists to protect the company from employee related lawsuits.

[–] [email protected] 125 points 10 months ago (3 children)

HR is IT for people. Do you think the IT guy cares about all the laptops in the company? No, it's a resource he manages. Do you think HR cares about all the people in the company. No it's a resource they manage. Companies try so hard to make HR look like high school guidance counselors instead of the ruthless hatchet men they are.

[–] [email protected] 178 points 10 months ago (11 children)

It guy here, I care more about the computers and tech than HR cares about people. Fuck HR

[–] [email protected] 58 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I know I feel empathy towards computers that are broken that I can't help anymore

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[–] [email protected] 78 points 10 months ago (3 children)

IT guy here... Uh, no. I resent that you would group us with HR.

At my work I keep advocating to give our underperforming hardware (aka old hardware) a second life by opening up sales for them instead of destroying them (except hard drives of course).

When my laptop was acting up and was kind of crappy... I replace the thermal paste and replaced the old failing hard drive with a new SSD. At laptop is now 14 years old (Intel i5-540).

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 10 months ago

I care about the laptops. I care about them a lot. People return them in a shit state, I clean them up take care of them and then advocate to donate them to schools in the area.

HR are just that, hatchet men.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

I went through a lay off being a manager once. It's not fun at all. We had the list and the metrics. But we were already pretty small and we really didn't want to lose anyone on the list except for a couple people.
So we basically gamed financial. Offered anyone that wanted it part time. Fired the few people people that were clearly not interested in working anyways. We did something else that I can't remember, and we ended up being able to fucking keep everyone. It was amazing.

Not even two months later we had to ramp up for the holidays, so everyone that willingly cut their hours went right back to full time. And we were offering OT too.

Year later the company pulled out of the state. But until that time we kept everyone.

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[–] [email protected] 177 points 10 months ago (16 children)

HR are all class traitors. Their sole purpose in life is to pay you as little as possible and protect the people at the top who are stealing everyone elses' profits. Fuck anyone working in HR.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 10 months ago (22 children)

That really isn't true, and you would know that if you were actually familiar with HR.

HR, for stuff like this, is just the messenger. Some exec told them to fire people, and gave them a directive on who to fire. The HR reps couldn't answer her questions because they likely don't know the answer.

Yes, the job of HR is to protect the company, but mostly that's protecting the company from the company breaking labor laws.

But, I'm sure I'll get downvoted to hell because the hive mind loves to shit on HR, which is exactly what the execs are wanting. They're scapegoats.

[–] [email protected] 68 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (17 children)

I am very familiar with HR at multiple fortune 500 corporations.

You're so close to getting the point. You realize HR are the executives' scapegoats. HR's purpose is to serve the rich assholes fucking everyone else over. Anyone working HR is complicit whether they're intelligent enough to realize it, or just a useful idiot. Execs want and need their scapegoats. People should realize this and avoid HR (class traitor) jobs.

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[–] [email protected] 168 points 10 months ago (10 children)

The ridiculous thing is they try to frame this as a performance issue when the reality is the company is just doing layoffs. Why even frame it that way? How fucking awful.

[–] [email protected] 150 points 10 months ago (9 children)

At least in my state, if your employment is terminated for poor performance, the employer can deny unemployment insurance claims. If you’re just laid off, they must pay out unemployment insurance claims.

By blaming the victim, the company saves money. It’s such scumbaggery.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 10 months ago (4 children)

At least in my state, if your employment is terminated for poor performance, the employer can deny unemployment insurance claims.

Which in itself is a total bullshit rule. What, so people who are bad at a certain job don't deserve help while they find a job they're better at?

[–] [email protected] 47 points 10 months ago

There's a lot of good evidence that helping people is pretty un-American.

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[–] [email protected] 158 points 10 months ago (17 children)

Holy fucking shit American corpospeak is pure fucking cancer. Just fucking talk normally.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 10 months ago

I understand how you are feeling, and nothing I can tell you today is going to be able to change that.

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[–] [email protected] 158 points 10 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 112 points 10 months ago (7 children)

If anyone ever thinks differently, this video should convince you.
If you work for a corporation, you are not a person with a name, you are a number. And that number is the amount of money given to you as pay and benefits.

And when the corporation no longer likes your number, you can be unceremoniously shown the door, regardless of your past performance.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Unless you're apart of a strong union. Then they think twice before firing you.

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[–] [email protected] 84 points 10 months ago (8 children)

love how its hey we will fire you today as a surprise after you’ve been told something completely different but we promise to tell you why later. I really this was just taken legally as an illegal termination. Because if it’s for performance that means you have data, if you have data you should be able to give me graphs and charts, stick figure animations, poorly acted corporate videos.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 months ago

Fr. If my performance was bad the entire time, why wasn't I told until now? If I am doing a crappy job but told I'm doing great, why would I ever do better? Either it's bullshit that my performance is poor, or they've set me up for failure from the beginning. Either of which makes them a piece of shit.

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[–] [email protected] 82 points 10 months ago (4 children)

HR is working their script, or they will be fired too. It's like a fucking callcenter to destroy people.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 10 months ago

Literally looped in circles over and over to avoid answering questions. It was so frustrating to listen to.

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I know they’re not trying to be but that HR speak is so fucking condescending. “I’m sorry for how you’re feeling.”

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 10 months ago (12 children)

We fired ~40 sales people out of over 1,500 in our go to market org. That’s a normal quarter. When we’re doing performance management right, we can often tell within 3 months or less of a sales hire, even during the holidays, whether they’re going to be successful or not. Sadly, we don’t hire perfectly. We try to fire perfectly. In this case, clearly we were far from perfect. The video is painful for me to watch. Managers should always be involved. HR should be involved, but it shouldn’t be outsourced to them, No employee should ever actually be surprised they weren’t performing. We don’t always get it right. And sometimes under performing employees don’t actually listen to the feedback they’ve gotten before we let them go. Importantly, just because we fire someone doesn’t mean they’re a bad employee. It doesn’t mean won’t be really, really great somewhere else. Chris Paul was a bad fit for the Suns, but he’s undoubtedly a great basketball player. And, in fact, we think the right thing to do is get people we know are unlikely to succeed off the team as quickly as possible so they can find the right place for them. We definitely weren’t anywhere close to perfect in this case. But any healthy org needs to get the people who aren’t performing off. That wasn’t the mistake here. The mistake was not being more kind and humane as we did. And that’s something @zatlyn and I are focused on improving going forward.

-Matthew Prince
Co-Founder & CEO, Cloudflare

Nitter / Mirror | Twitter

[–] [email protected] 83 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

If he thinks it's painful to watch then he should apologize personally to HER and her coworkers for traumatizing them, and give them a good severance pay. The way he phrases this as if he's just shrugging and saying "we'll do better at some unspecified point in the future, I'm sure" makes him come off as an inhumane piece of garbage with no empathy.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 10 months ago

This is the same piece of shit ceo trying to force their workers back to office too. Fuck this asshole

[–] [email protected] 54 points 10 months ago

This asshat is also just beating around the performance bush that doesn't exist, only to avoid calling the firing a layoff. Disgusting.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 10 months ago (5 children)

That's a massive wall of text to say "sorry we got caught"

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Honestly the problem I see here is not the layoff, which was disguised as a "lack of performance". Yes, it wasn't done perfectly, but still, it's no tragedy.

What is definitely the problem here is the absolute lack of a social security system in the US. That should be implemented.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

I only saw the start and the emotional vibes are pretty bad, and not just for Brittany (though, of course, even in the beginning she's clearly already hurting).

At least somebody actually directly got in contact with her, personally, rather than firing-by-email.

If there is a lesson I learned way back at the beginning of my career in Tech back in the mid 90s is that you shouldn't really go for the whole loyalty to your employee when they're anything but a little company were everybody works together, because they will screw you over if its in their best interest, sometimes casually so, and those making the decision will never be in calls such as this one and instead send some poor sods like the HR lady and that director guy to do the dirty work for them and fell the hurt from the person on the other side if they have any empathy (which most people do have, which is probably why both the HR Lady and the guy were uncomfortable from the start).

Also beware of the company trying to manipulate you as an employee to have your workplace be your entire social circle of friends and even like a second family: the whole point of that is to "retain" employees without having to actually pay what the market says they're worth. This is actually a pretty old trick in Tech HR, dating back to the original Internet Boom.

The whole loyalty of the companies to employees thing died in the late 80s early 90s and you should be skeptical when it comes to what the company "does for you" and ponder on what's in it for them: for example, "free pizza dinners" are not at all about being nice for you, they're about you working long hours for free (which would cost them way more than that free pizza if they had to pay for them) to enhance that company's profits.

It's sad and it's the World we live in: one were the real power of the land is Money and it's mainly in the hands of Sociopaths.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 10 months ago (8 children)

I respect her speaking up for herself, but once a company has decided to let you go there is no amount of talking you can do to convince them to change their mind.

[–] [email protected] 95 points 10 months ago (10 children)

She knows that, she just wants them to admit it's not her. As someone who has been in that seat, there's being laid off, and then there's people telling you you are incompetent. It's a vastly different experience. By not proving to her that they knew she was a bad employee they said more about their company and culture.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 10 months ago (1 children)

She’s not trying to do that—the corporate asshats are trying to blame this as a performance related firing as opposed to a layoff (which it was) which means she’s not entitled to the same severance and unemployment benefits. If she can get them to slip and admit that she has a legal case.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 10 months ago

They need a union.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 10 months ago (4 children)

I was laid off almost a year ago. I don't even know the reason why. Our team was fairly small, and targetted a specific product within our company that was still very profitable and we had a lot of work lined up for it. They let go of me, two other devs, the senior qa person and a few others. Our team did not over hire during COVID, in fact our team shrunk during that time. I had a good rep within the company and with the team and I know for a fact the others did too.

My only guess is that the company was trying to save money by shrinking each team, despite already being small (there were 6 left after the layoffs and about 12 before).

My layoff meeting was with my boss and an HR person that I had already been aquatinted with. They did ensure me that my performance was not the reason I was being let go, but they couldn't get into specifics either. Strangely my boss seemed emotionally unphased.

That experience taught me the lesson that no matter who you are in a company, you're disposable.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 10 months ago (18 children)

why can't corporations just do things in a reasonable and rational way?

Why do they constantly make so many extreme changes all the time? When they need to hire more people, they hire way more than they need, when they need to downsize...or rather when they're tired of paying so many people, they fire way too many.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 10 months ago

You can see first the fear, then the thrill of battle in her eyes. Don’t take any guff from these swine, Brittany.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Loved it when she asked if performance indicators were real or just something they use as an excuse. Plus pointing out that they aren't going to explain after she is fired, since she won't be an employee anymore.

I hope she finds another job that doesn't treat her like shit.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Yikes. This kind of thing is happening all over the industry as it pulls back from COVID over-hiring. https://layoffs.fyi

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 10 months ago

So glad she eventually got to the "how the fuck are you so clueless about this, you're the ones firing ME" part.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 10 months ago

The worst thing is that there are many bootlickers out there. Worker rights are a joke and companies have infinite ways of fucking you over.

In this instance the HR snakes were caught with their pants down and looked like imbeciles.

But for example many people get placed on PiP with unrealistic goals, or harassed by management over petty mistakes. The only goal being saving the corporation some money by claiming low performance.

A lot of people out there need to get their head out of their asses if they think this is ok.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (6 children)

The only time I got laid off was from a university where I worked. I read in the paper that morning that there were going to be layoffs and I came in and my boss was really apologetic and told me I was laid off. It actually went really well all things considered. I didn't blame him and he was as nice as he could be about it, saying things like, "if you ever need a letter of recommendation, send me an email."

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Being a 9-5 sucks. Never be loyal to an employer especially millenials and coming generation. You have lost everything so do what you get paid for and leave. Don't let them tell you how boomers and the generation before that did the job.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Damn girl, I want you on my team! You got moxy!

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (5 children)
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