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[–] 120 points 3 months ago (11 children)

Single-sex toilets and changing rooms in England, Wales and Scotland must exclude transgender men and women, according to a new code of practice from the equalities watchdog.

But the long-awaited guidance also says that businesses and service providers have to offer practical alternatives such as gender-neutral toilets for people who do not wish to use services for their biological sex.

I guess I’m naive to hope that a business would rather convert existing facilities to two multi-sex bathrooms rather than have to build and give up existing space to a third bathroom.

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  • [–] 75 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (78 children)

    I hate, with a burning passion, the term "biological sex".

    We have frankly, no fucking clue how our genetics and sex are intertwined.

    We used to think it was "just chromosomes", but then we discovered "biological men" with double-X, or double-X and a Y, or vice-versa.

    Or intersex individuals.

    Then, we also got to consider that, say, a "biological woman" can transition to a "transgender man", which renders no change to their genes, just hormone levels, and they see physical development, voice deepening, hair growth, etc, just like a "biological man", or vice-versa.

    In conclusion, "biological sex" is just another gross simplification created by people who's minds are so pathetic they can't comprehend reality and so choose to live by mantra founded in disproven pseudo-sciences, religion, and other excuses to avoid critical thinking, and then put themselves in positions of power.

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  • [–] 54 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Doesn’t sound to me like you know the difference between sex and gender. We do have a pretty solid idea of how genetics and sex are intertwined, including intersex conditions. Gender is a whole different thing.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    You're mostly correct, tho the bit about genetics (+++) and sex is a bellcurve meme... There's tons we don't know and a lot of it is a giant interconnected mesh of incredibly complex relationship we barely grasp with very little casual data, and just a tiny bit of epidemiological inference that we can almost try to reason from.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (7 children)

    Can you explain further? I’m a biochemist / medical lab scientist, and between my studies in genetics, human sexuality, and endocrinology, it seems pretty well figured out. Between “normal” X/Y chromosomes, various chromosomal abnormalities (X, XXX, XXY, XYY, etc), and mutations like androgen insensitivity syndrome it seems there is significant causal data. Not sure if they’ve studied these with knockout mice but it’s well beyond inference at this point.

    I’m not sealioning here, it has been like a decade since I was actively learning this stuff and I’m sure there have been more discoveries. In general though it seems like we know the genetics, we know the hormones and receptors involved, the developmental process and various maladies are known, etc.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (25 children)

    I totally understand what you’re saying, but if you take gender out of it and just think about humans as any other animal, you could classify animals with penises and animals with vaginas separately especially if you’re breeding them. The AI overlords won’t care when they’re breeding us.

    EDIT: two types of genitalia instead of just penis and vagina. And not all but many animals.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    I don’t like it by association, because most of the time I hear it used by intolerant people (like right wing assholes on the “news”). Sometimes, though, I hear it used without malice, presumably because people don’t know what else to say.

    Pardon my ignorance, but what term would you suggest instead? Birth sex? Assigned sex? Something else?

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    [–] 68 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    I'm curious how they'll handle enforcement. "Please present your genitals for inspection before entering"

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  • [–] 56 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    Oh, this type thinks they "can always tell".

    Thing is, they can't. Trans people pass as cis pretty often, even to transphobes. And they're constantly 'transvestigating' people who are actually cis.

    What this will actually accomplish is license to harass (and, yes, probably attempt to inspect the genitals of) anyone who's even a little bit gender non-conforming. It will mainly hurt cis women and cis men who, respectively, don't look feminine enough or don't look masculine enough. Functionally, it's just another way to enforce gender conformity.

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    [–] 47 points 3 months ago (15 children)

    There is a solution to all of this. Unitary WCs. Each has one toilet, one sink, at least one method for drying hands and at least one sanitary disposal for non-flushable items. Mirror optional. A toilet brush might also be a good idea.

    Communal rooms should go the way of the dinosaur.

    That way, anyone, regardless of persuasion, intent or comfort level, can use a toilet in peace. And if they want to invite someone else in for safety, so be it.

    All the problems with this solution are excuses, and usually not very good ones.

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    [–] 37 points 3 months ago (29 children)

    single sex toilets must be forever prohibited from existing, says actual equality and human rights

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    [–] 34 points 3 months ago

    What's that got to do with equality?

    These people are suspiciously concerned with what's going on between other people's legs.

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  • [–] 32 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    So, a bathroom ban for the entire UK?

    Did you guys see the US speed running a regression arc and decide to try your hand at it?

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    [–] 31 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    As far as I can tell the UK is the only country in the whole of Europe following America down this specific insane moral and political rabbit-hole.

    It's like they tried to get into the XXI century, failed and decided to go back to their time of greatness, the Victorian Era.

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    [–] 29 points 3 months ago (17 children)

    They want trans genocide, they aren't even trying to hide it anymore

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    [–] 29 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    So how are these dipshits going to feel when a trans man uses the female toilet?

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    [–] 27 points 3 months ago

    Terf island at it again.

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  • [–] 27 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Why the fuck do these perverts care so much about what people do in a bathroom? How fucking weird

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    [–] 26 points 3 months ago

    ... says Equality and Human Rights Commission

    1984 Ministry of Truth type shit

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  • [–] 26 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    This is going to make it so difficult to plan out businesses and buildings that everyone will end up with gender neutral bathrooms and spaces. It's my dream that all those lobby groups who think they're protecting women will have to shit next to every man, woman, femboy, adult baby, theydy, them, zem, furry and otherkin in the UK.

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    [–] 25 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    how about no more segregated toilets, full stop?

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    [–] 24 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I thought that toilets were a primarily a public health concern. If they are not provided then unfortunate things start happening in secluded corners.

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  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    All of this is solved with just using more single occupancy bathrooms. Just an open hallway with rooms and toilets and changing stations. Sinks in the hallway.

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    [–] 23 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Never thought I'd ask this but... how do I determine the gender of my toilet? And how do I confirm it's cis-gendered?

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    [–] 22 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Why do gendered toilets exist anymore? It's the 21st century and we don't need them.

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    [–] 21 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    There's a simple solution to this that I've seen some bars in my city do. Make all the cubicles and urinals gender-neutral and mark them as such.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    This seems like the obvious solution. An area for stand-up wees. An area for sit-down wees and poos. Everyone can wash their hands together in an open area.

    No need to bring gender into expelling waste. Wouldn't be surprised to find modern toilets were invented by the Victorians so men wouldn't have to find out that women also shit.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    I'm having an argument with idiots here in Australia trying to "protect women". No joke, most of them are toxic blokes who are trying to be masculine. I even got told by one I'm not a man, because I should be protecting women.

    In another thread, there was a guy who was posting back and forth telling me I was a guy dictating things.. whilst, I didn't even comment what should be done. I just commented that climbing gyms are running womxn nights for years without issue and it's a non issue is causing some of them to go nuts

    In fact, they solved the dilemma entirely by just going unisex (and, the toilet cubicles are full length and mostly soundproof it feels like, so they're actually awesome

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I was confused, but then the article was about the UK, where they stupidly did Brexit. Don't worry, everybody. This is just about people who make dumb decisions.

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    [–] 14 points 3 months ago

    THEY JUST HAVE TO PEE!

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    Endless love to all trans people I've got your back ❤️ 💙 💜 💖 💗

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    I’m done living in this shithole.

    Not that I ever would, but if I went into the women’s they’d (rightly) tell me to fuck off or report me to staff.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago*

    equality and human rights commission discussing bathrooms is an insult to all people whose human rights is to live under slavery, lawless war zones, traffickings, torture, aprthied, ethnic cleansing, and dictatorships that oppress and jail dissidents indifinitely without trails.

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