this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
56 points (100.0% liked)

news

23537 readers
512 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Half a mil to put their thumbs up their asses instead of just literally giving that money directly as reparations jokerfied

Edit: I want to clarify, I fully support reparations, I'm just extremely frustrated knowing that, under liberal/bourgeoisie democracy, these types of efforts tend to get bogged down with means testing, and sometimes outright turn into thinly-veiled handouts to private corporations. All while the police budget is still increasing YOY.

That said, Evanston (city on Chicago's northern border) did actually manage to distribute "...$25,000 in no-strings-attached direct cash payments for those eligible. Black residents who lived in Evanston during a 50-year period of discriminatory zoning laws and their direct descendants receive priority for eligibility." So I don't want to encourage further reactionary criticisms such as mine towards this specific subcommittee if they are able to achieve at least some form of direct payments similar to Evanston's program.

all 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

inb4 they pocket the money and go “we’ll meet again next year to finish this”

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

~~No that's literally what they're doing~~

Ald. Stephanie Coleman (16th Ward), the chair of the Chicago City Council’s Black Caucus, said the subcommittee is likely to be part of the City Council’s Committee on Contracting Equity and Oversight, which is led by Ald. Emma Mitts (37th Ward). That panel will meet for no more than a year, and then transition to a full commission, Coleman told WTTW News.

Edit: I'm going to go back on this specific criticism, as has been pointed out by other commenters, this committee has voiced their intentions to model their program after Evanston, which began with means-testing assistance but had a 2nd phase which instituted "$25,000 in no-strings-attached direct cash payments for those eligible. Black residents who lived in Evanston during a 50-year period of discriminatory zoning laws and their direct descendants receive priority for eligibility."

There's still plenty to criticize around the inefficiencies and contradictions of reparation attempts under liberal democracy, but I don't want to direct my ire at efforts that actually accomplish some material benefit, at least if and until they demonstrate failure. In other words, we should agitate these efforts to do it correctly, and clown on them if they end up with some means-tested liberal nonsense, but not clown on them for attempting it all.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

How does this imply they are pocketing the money and doing no work?

This is a major city taking a concrete step towards reparations and we're making unfounded criticisms that could be ripped right from reddit-logo

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

How do people think you go from supporting reparations as a concept to actually cutting checks and deciding who gets what? Are the people doing the work to get from concept to execution supposed to work for free?

This is what running a government looks like. Absent a specific critique about why this amount isn't needed, the takes objecting to this are just the reactionary "any dime the government spends on anything other than the end product is pure waste."

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I will believe this the minute I see this process resulting in >$500k being given as reparations. Unfortunately creating a committee to study an issue is from a well-established playbook of stringing people along.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"I'll believe the government can do good when I see it" is a core reactionary idea. Its another strain of brainworms we have to purge from ourselves if we're going to sell people on a system of government that we think should directly provide housing, healthcare, education, jobs, solutions to climate change, etc.

Really, how else would you go from concept to execution? Committes can be used to string people along, but they're also how you make big decisions in big organizations. Skepticism is warranted, but calling this nothing until the checks clear is not.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is a government that exists within bourgeois capitalist democracy, aka a government run by the capitalists. Specifically since it's a municipal government it's run by real estate developers. Thinking that electing someone with specific beliefs will alter the forces shaping the trajectory of that government is, itself, brainworms.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Good things occasionally do come out of capitalist democracy, though -- look at the reparations being paid right now in Evanston.

Understanding the flaws of capitalist democracy does not mean that style of democracy never ever ever does anything but harm. This is the appeal of liberalism -- you get occasional carrots, and all better options are snuffed out, so do you want the carrot or do you want nothing? The socialist criticism of that is that it'll never be enough, and will turn to fascism in a hearbeat; it's not that those carrots do not exist.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Salary and benefits for a 3 person team with a lawyer consulting will eat that up in a year easily.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's a fair point, it's just hard to not be pessimistic when the same city is still spending $2 billion on their police budget and $29 mil to a private company for tents to house migrants (instead of just expropriating some unoccupied office buildings).

I'm not against spending large amounts of time, effort, and money on planning and executing reparations, I just have very little confidence that it can be done under liberal democracy without it turning into some market-based, means-tested program that is most certainly not reparations, all while other systems of harm are still being funded by several higher orders of magnitude. I will word my criticisms better in the future so as not to come off like I'm criticizing the very idea of planning and distributing reparations.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Skepticism is warranted, but there are reparations being paid right now 45 minutes down the road in Evanston. It's not a pipe dream; there's an actual working example right there.

We talk a lot here about how social programs in the USSR and Warsaw Pact countries served as an immediate example of how things could be done better, and how that pressured capitalist countries to make concessions in the same direction. Reparations programs can work the same way. We've seen this effect with LGBT rights and marijuana legalization recently, too.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Photo of the reparations committee in session

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

LMAO, yes! this is literally the first thing that came to mind.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

How is Chicago going to pay for reparations and according to what criteria? Collective years lived in Chicago? Reparations to Japanese Americans came from federal funds as a counterexample. Clown show all around.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

Those are exactly the questions this subcommittee will answer? How is using a committee to go from "reparations should be paid" to the specifics of how to pay them, and to whom, a clown show? How else would you do it?

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I’m so glad the USSR didn’t take OP’s approach of “planning Schmanning, we’ll ignore it because overhead is wasteful.” You can spend a lot up front and it’ll be costly but might actually happen and even finish somewhat on time, or try to save up front and never end up finishing and wasting a colossal amount of labor and resources.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Pop open a thread about the USSR or the PRC and you'll find plenty of people praising central planning and the role it played in rapid economic development, and you might also find critiques that amount to "you should have better examined the effects of trying to eradicate sparrows."

It's OK to be skeptical of government power, waste, and corruption, but deep cynicism about government ever being able to do anything right is a core reactionary belief.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

This is the way lib world ends
This is the way lib world ends
This is the way lib world ends
Not with a bang but a subcomittee.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I disagree, the new mayor actually seems willing to provide the basic apologies as reparations. It doesn't matter how much it costs as long as it is done.

Plus his general spending plan for Chicago 2024 seems to be very decent, he's an alright guy from what I can see.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

decent except for his pledge not to defund the police. up 3%

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

PMC parasites lol