chapotraphouse

I think the phrase is backwards

If you support the Democrats you are not a leftist, you are not progressive, you are Trump with a blue coat of paint.

rather:

If you're leftist/progressive, why are you supporting these policies, or supporting the politicians who support these policies? Where do you stand on immigrant rights? Did you dislike when trump did x y z? Obama created those border cages first, and was known as "deporter-in-chief" among immigrant rights groups and socialists for being so draconian. Then, with Kamala as "Border-czar," Biden deregulated the border camps, allowed them to be privatized, and issued an executive order to totally shut the border which when Trump tried to do it it was so extreme the courts blocked him on multiple separate levels.

Then you're getting positive engagement, actually having them tell you what they believe and having conversations about it, and challenging the politicians to pull the worker away from hollow faith in jackals.

Rather than just accusing people of things, calling them names, and acting in a gatekeeping way pushing them further from ever accepting leftist positions because you're actively telling them that they don't and aren't leftists and basically insulting them and condescending to them for being misled by the agents of empire who have total media and social media narrative supremacy. which might make you feel good but does nothing to convince anyone and does nothing to grow socialism.

Supporting genocide is right-wing, "reaching across the isle" to republicans is right wing. Failing to defend people from republican policy is right wing. Listening to corporate needs before the general public is right-wing. Failing to enact leftist policy is right-wing. Sacrificing millions of people to a disease because you're scared people will like welfare is right-wing. Hating communist countries and sanctioning them is right-wing. Filling your party with landlords is right-wing. Being buddies with war criminals like Bush JR just because he doesn't like Trump is right-wing. And defending literal Nazis? Yeah, I shouldn't have to tell you that's right-wing.

If you support the Democrats you are not a leftist, you are not progressive, you are Trump with a blue coat of paint.

You are 100% correct, the corporate party that owns and operates the U.S. only has two right wings.

Correct. The Democratic Party is fascist. I am really trying to get people in my life to understand that they should give the Democratic Party as much support, respect, and cover as they would give the Nazi Party (which is NONE, because fuck genocide).

Edit: It shouldn't be this hard to get people to understand, but they're just racist fucks who think brown people are untermensch so it's harder than it should be

You’re not going to convince any libs who call themselves “leftists” because Trump being a right winger isn’t the reason they hate him.

All the American libs I’ve talked to are voting for Kamala because they don’t want to think or care about politics at all. They want to go back to brunch and watch Netflix and not having to feel second hand embarrassment from Trump being a buffoon on world stage. They want the adults in the room to be in charge and they can sleep soundly knowing that American interests will be well protected from foreign adversaries. They want the genocides to be committed off screen, and not having to deal with these uncomfortable topics in their everyday lives.

Seriously, go out and talk to libs. None of them want to hear about Palestine. They know it’s bad but they don’t want to hear about it. And if you keep bringing up the issue in conversation you’d soon find yourself talking to a bunch of people who have these words going in their heads: “oh here they go again. how long are they gonna take before shutting up this time? we’ll just pretend to agree so they’ll shut up faster”.

Every time you’re in the room, you can almost feel as if people are silently begging for “please… please don’t bring up anything about Israel and Palestine… we don’t want to hear about it….” And keep doing that a couple more times, soon enough you’d find yourself “uninvited” to social gatherings you used to be a part of.

That’s just the reality if you are friends with liberals.

The Zionist project is an extension of Nazism. Libs, of which there are many, who genuinely crave the genocide of Palestinians and support the Zionists are simply Nazis by another name. Full stop.

Hexbears apologizing for libs as they salivate for genocide. Shameful.

That’s going to be hard to do. Americans are programmed to believe they Democrats represent the left—if they’re even aware of what leftism is—and being then told they they’re actually right-wing will lead them to think you’re crazy.

“You’re so far-left that you think the Democrats are right-wing!”

At least that’s how it is with younger liberals who are a little more tuned in to politics. The average unengaged person is more receptive if the message is packaged differently.

Yes but have you considered that orange man bad and blah blah blah

I've been trying to convince Americans of this for years and it's like boxing sandpaper.

The few times it did sink in, they just decided that clearly that's how the whole world should be and it's what makes America great that everyone is right wing.

You can't convince a man of something if he's paid not to believe it.

The way I put it is, we have two right wing parties in America: the status quo right wing party and the neurotic right wing party

reaching around the isle

you need to be able to tell a story on the level of reality of the average person. If Orange Man Is Bad & Must Be Stopped is functioning rhetoric - that's basically the upper bound of how far you can intellectualize your position. This isn't the battleground of moral positions derived from a complex understanding of issues - you have meaningless aesthetics, you have the common knowlege, you have axioms and staked positions, the rhetoric of manufactured consent - you might have the full rhetorical space defined by news peddlers for the average "more invested" person, and you must be ever-mindful that some people actually understand their class interests even if not in a way that's able to be confessed or even candidly admitted to themselves.

Keeping it simple, and yes hammering home the similarities in the behavior of the right-lib and right-fash on urgent matters - genocides, ecological collapse, disease outbreak, all that counts. Not to be condescending, but reading people in to the geopolitical situation such that you can make your case is wasted time in this case. People need to be listening before they'll hear any of that. Else it's immediately in brains-off-time-to-argue mode

But also temper your expectations because the level of information control we are under is straight up dystopian and there's probably very little to do that's not a trevor moore joke

If you don't want the zionist state gone, with Palestine being established from the Jordan river to the sea and from Haifa to Al-Naqab, you're as good as a Nazi to me

I think you should consider abandoning the project of queering Nazi Germany and leave the apartheid settler state at the center of the imperial core yourself.

When Che said he envies his comrades in the belly of the beast, he was talking about comrades in his struggle for justice. Not the struggle of Twitch streamers over whether unviable restoration of New Deal bargains with workers should be fey-queer or viciously normie frat boy flavored

If you are unnerved by that let me clarify YES I prefer gay flavored New Deal but you're not getting it until something is done about the financial structure of imperialism that impoverishes the vast majority of Americans outside the tech, legal, insurance, finance, medical, and realtor "industries" and I didn't decide it.