If you got anything for me to read or watch, feel free to share.

i was thinking last night about how sad it is that the main content out there for our young men to consume is basically reactionary dumbasses interviewing celebs or athletes or whatever. i was thinking it would be cool if a podcast existed that was just like regular dudes and getting their thoughts on masculinity, the family, relationships etc

the types of topics young men might be interested in and look to their fathers for guidance but not everyone has that, or some fathers are shitheads

is there anything like that out there? and if not would anyone be interested in recording some interviews and seeing if its any good?

i was thinking about trying to come up with like 3-4 questions to start as a template to ask everyone then following the conversation and seeing where it goes from there

i also just had a high abv beer and have adhd so i might never follow up on this lol

I’ve sat with these thoughts for a long time and have wanted to write them down for a while, so I did. I want to share it here in case people can provide new insights for me or in general help me make sense of it. (each section is about 350 words long)

This post is meant in part just to create clarity in my head by writing things down on (digital) paper. But I also am curious if there are people that have similar feelings to mine. For those that just want to talk about my messy relationship with masculinity, reading the first section is sufficient, while the rest adds context for what I am like or is seed for discussion. I finally want to pre-emptively say that I’ve read the book club threads for “The Will To Change” and want to read the book for myself as well, before anyone raises it to me in response. Sorry if it's a bit unusual, but thank you if you're willing to read my silly ramblings.

Hello comrades, it's time for a new discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 8 (Popular Culture: Media Masculinity) and 9 (Healing Male Spirit). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

Putting the thread up early since I won't be able to do so tomorrow. This'll stay up a little longer than usual as well so everyone has the opportunity to share their thoughts during/after the busy holidays.

Chapter 8 briefly surveys popular media depictions of masculinity and how media either reinforces patriarchal roles in its male heroes, or forces them to reject those roles in favor of a healthier sense of self. Chapter 9 discusses healthy vs unhealthy conceptions of intimacy and how men are incapable of true intimacy until they allow themselves to be vulnerable and reject the dominator model of relationships.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our FINAL discussion thread will be on Chapters 10 (Reclaiming Male Integrity), 11 (Loving Men), and the book as a whole, beginning around New Years Day

Honestly, I'm here for it. The biphobic stuff I would hear from women kept me in the closet for a long time

https://xcancel.com/guywhoiswoke/status/1871313546266759389

Hello comrades, it's time for our third discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 6 (Work: What's Love Got To Do With It?) and 7 (Feminist Manhood). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

Chapter 6 discusses the role of work under patriarchy and how capitalism forces men and women alike to not only work long hours to survive, but to prioritize supporting themselves and their families financially over any sort of healing and growing. Chapter 7 delves into how men can apply feminist thought practically to support the well-being of themselves and the people around them.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 8 (Popular Culture: Media Masculinity) and 9 (Healing Male Spirit), beginning on 12/25. That thread will likely stay up a little longer than usual as I'm sure many people will be busy around the end of the year and I want to give everyone the opportunity to share their thoughts.

(CW: chapters 4 and 5 contain explicit discussions of sexual assault)

Hello comrades, it's time for our third discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 4 (Stopping Male Violence) and 5 (Male Sexual Being). Thanks to everyone who participated the last few weeks, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

I'll be sharing my full thoughts later as there's quite a lot of unpack in these chapters.

In Ch.4 hooks delves into how patriarchal repression of men's emotional worlds most often manifests as violence and rage, especially against women and children, and how patriarchy conditions both young boys and young girls to perpetuate the cycle. Ch.5 explores how patriarchal attitudes extend to the bedroom and twist our popular conceptions of sexuality, sexual fulfillment, and physical and emotional satisfaction.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 6 (Work: What's Love Got To Do With It?) and 7 (Feminist Manhood), beginning on 12/18.

edit: the previous post didn't have the proper links to the pdf book and audiobooks, sorry for that

This book has been absolutely revelatory for me in understanding men who have hurt me, and how I have hurt some of my partners in turn.

It's important to read it as a series of extreme examples of the worst possible trends, and not as a list of traits where exhibiting one entails another.

For example, in chapter 9 on breakups, I realized that my periods of depression and emotional intensity with exes were inappropriate forms of retaliation because I interpreted breakups as an attack on some level.

Reading this book is giving me the understanding I need to let go.

CW: chapter 2 contains a detailed description of child abuse by a parent

Hello comrades, it's time for our second discussion thread for The Will to Change, covering Chapters 2 (Understanding Patriarchy) and 3 (Being a Boy). Thanks to everyone who participated last week, I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts again. And if you’re just joining the book club this week, welcome!

In Ch.2 hooks defines patriarchy, how it is enforced by parental figures and society at large, and the struggle of antipatriarchal parents to raise children outside of these rigid norms when the border culture is so immersed in them. Ch.3 delves deeper into the effects of patriarchy on young boys and girls and the systemic apparatuses that reinforce gender norms.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

As always let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 4 (Stopping Male Violence) and 5 (Male Sexual Being), beginning on 12/11.

From chapter 3 of The Will to Change (join the book club!) while she's discussing how mass media reinforces partriarchal norms onto boys and young men

Hello comrades, it's time for our first discussion thread for The Will to Change! Please share your thoughts below on the first two sections of the book. There's quite a lot to talk about between hooks' discussion of masculinity discourse within feminist circles, the ways both men and women uphold patriarchy, and the near universal experience of men being forced to suppress their rich emotional worlds from a young age. I'll be posting my thoughts in a little bit after I'm done with work.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it) Let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 2 (Understanding Patriarchy) and 3 (Being a Boy), beginning on 12/4.

Thanks to everyone who is or will be participating, I'm really looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts!

Hello comrades, as part of our sitewide effort to combat misogynistic and patriarchal attitudes, encourage people to become more familiar with theory, and kick off the reopening of /c/menby, we are launching a book club for The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks, a classic of feminist theory. From the Goodreads page:

Everyone needs to love and be loved—even men. But to know love, men must be able to look at the ways that patriarchal culture keeps them from knowing themselves, from being in touch with their feelings, from loving.

In The Will to Change, bell hooks gets to the heart of the matter and shows men how to express the emotions that are a fundamental part of who they are—whatever their age, marital status, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. But toxic masculinity punishes those fundamental emotions, and it’s so deeply ingrained in our society that it’s hard for men to not comply—but hooks wants to help change that.

With trademark candor and fierce intelligence, hooks addresses the most common concerns of men, such as fear of intimacy and loss of their patriarchal place in society, in new and challenging ways. She believes men can find the way to spiritual unity by getting back in touch with the emotionally open part of themselves—and lay claim to the rich and rewarding inner lives that have historically been the exclusive province of women. A brave and astonishing work, The Will to Change is designed to help men reclaim the best part of themselves.

The book is available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it)

It’s a fairly short read (the text is ~120 pages, the audiobook’s chapters are ~30min each) so we’re going to be discussing 2 chapters each week, starting with the preface and Chapter 1 on Weds, November 27th.

Please comment below if you wish to be pinged when the discussion threads go live.

I need to stress that we expect masc Hexbear users to participate in this book club and engage with the material. Hexbear, like most western leftist spaces, has well-established problems with patriarchal attitudes, misogyny, white supremacy, and western chauvinism. Any comments attempting to minimize or deny these problems will be removed and the poster will cop a ban. Kill the liberal in your mind, listen to what your marginalized comrades have been saying over and over again, and READ THEORY WITH US

Please comment with any other resources or suggestions you think would be helpful as we read through this. Shoutout to @[email protected] for running the original reading group last year. There was good engagement back then but we’re gonna pump those numbers up, right libs?

(reposting a modified version of @[email protected]'s post here from several months back when the comm was initially reopened)

Please chime in with the type of content and discussion you would like to see here.

If you’re interested in helping out with posting or moderating, please actively report posts that even remotely seem rule-breaking, and/or send one of the admins a mod application if you're interested in modding. While there is value in calling out comments and trying to teach people, leaving anything egregious up for too long could promote people blocking the comm even if they might otherwise want to see the “good” posts and/or learning opportunities.

Another question is whether this should become a local-only comm, let us know your thoughts below.

In the coming days we'll formally announce a book club reading The Will to Change by bell hooks, and we expect that masc users will participate and engage with the material, just like with cis users in the battle against transphobia early in our history. As socialists we have a responsibility to read theory and actively work to remove our to be better comrades.

Please comment with any suggestions or concerns you have. Cheers

edit: please read The Gender Accelerationist Manifesto as a primer for the tone we're going for in this comm

Please chime in with the type of content and discussion you would like to see hear.

I’ve left up all the old posts instead of doing a thorough pruning (apparently it closed due to a lack of moderation letting too much slip through the cracks). If you’re interested in helping out without posting or moderating please report actively, while there is value in calling out in the comments and trying to teach leaving anything egregious up for too long could promote people blocking the comm even if they might otherwise want to see the “good” posts and/or milder learning opportunities.

Should probably do a poll on whether to be local only as well once it’s active again. So Sopranos emotes if you have an opinion on that.

Cheers

Fueled by the rise of social media and a lucrative, unregulated supplements industry, more boys and young men today are bulking up to the point of risking their overall health. A measured amount of weight training can be positive and healthy, but it’s neither when body image turns into an obsession or exercise becomes excessive.

Nagata published research in the Journal of Adolescent Health in 2019 that found about a third of teenage boys reported trying to gain weight. The study was based on data from more than 15,000 high school students in the 2015 Youth Risk Behavior Survey. And in Current Opinion in Pediatrics in 2021, Nagata and his co-authors wrote that about 22 percent of teen boys and young men are engaging in some sort of muscle-building behavior.

The red flag for a young man or a teenage boy is when exercise or food choices lead to preoccupations or obsessions with appearance, body size, weight or exercise in a way that worsens their quality of life, Nagata says.

“It’s not just the activity itself, it’s also the way the activity makes them feel,” Nagata stresses. “So when someone says that the exercise is really causing them more worry or preoccupation than joy, and when it starts to impair their schoolwork or social functioning, those are all red flags regardless of the actual activity, but just how they perceive it.” More warning signs on body image

Gabriela Vargas, a pediatrician and director of the Young Men’s Health website at Boston Children’s Hospital, urges parents to look for boys becoming hyper-fixated on what they’re eating, having highly regimented meals, cutting out specific types of food groups (such as carbs or sugars) or dramatically increasing the amount of protein that they’re taking in. Going from one protein shake a day to five or having a pre- and post-workout shake multiple times a day is a nutritional warning sign.

“If a parent sees their teen engaging in hyper-exercising or protein supplement use, I would encourage them to have a conversation with their teen as to why they are changing their behavior,” Vargas says. “They should share their concerns with the teen and encourage the teen to reduce their exercise and/or protein supplement use.”

She also encourages parents to speak with their child’s primary care doctor if they’re worried about behavior.

Bulking up, with the associated risky behaviors of skewed nutrient intake and excessive exercise, can be as dangerous as the drastic weight loss associated with more frequently discussed eating disorders such as anorexia. When a growing teen has energy deficits from either not enough caloric intake or too much exercise, they’re not getting adequate nutrition to match the energy they’re exerting either through exercise or their baseline metabolic needs.

“Boys with eating disorders, if they’re in this relative malnutrition state, they will have lower testosterone levels and lower libido levels,” he says. “I think one of the big challenges is many of these boys and young men are engaging in these behaviors with the ultimate goal of increasing or maximizing their performance and appearance. But in the end, it can actually stunt their growth.”

In younger boys still in the early stages of puberty, a relatively low level of testosterone can also lead to limited gains in muscle mass.

“Boys feel a lot of pressure when they’re in that stage of development where they haven’t really gone through the later stages of puberty yet,” says S. Bryn Austin, a professor in Harvard University’s Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences. But they “don’t have the same kind of hormonal environment” to support significant muscle gain, which means there isn’t a lot of potential to gain muscle mass for the average 10- to 14-year-old boy who lifts weights and drinks protein shakes

Although muscle strength can improve performance in sports, often this pursuit of the ideal male body isn’t to do better on the field, but to look better — or more muscular — in the mirror. The goal isn’t bigger, stronger and faster. It’s just bigger.

“In terms of how boys and young men learn about masculinity, just being big is a way of expressing masculinity and dominance,” Austin says.

Studies looking at boys’ action figures have found that, over a 25-year period, the toys have become more muscular, with bulging biceps and broad chests. “The increase in action figure dimensions may contribute to the multifactoral development of an idealized body type that focuses on a lean, muscular physique. This occurrence may particularly influence the perceptions of preadolescent males,” the researchers wrote.

Related research has shown that boys prefer those hyper-muscularized toys over their skinnier predecessors.

“They’re exposed to [examples of muscularity] at a very early age,” Nagata says.

“So, late childhood, late elementary school, early adolescence, boys are learning, they’re learning about what the expectations are about this, the so-called ideal body that they are expected to grow into,” Austin notes.

And what starts with toys and cartoon superheroes is amplified through social media platforms such as TikTok and Instagram. With algorithms directed at funneling content, all it takes is a click, or even a pause on muscle-building content and users will keep getting more and more. This can foster an illusion that everyone is muscular or engaging in muscle-building behavior.

“Because it’s also such a societal norm,” Vargas says, “it’s really tough for parents to figure out when is this just my kid as a teenager versus my kid has a problem.”

“I think the added pressure with social media is that with all those traditional forms — books, television, movies — back in the day, most people were living in a read-only environment,” Nagata says. “For the most part, your average teenage boy would not expect to be featured in a movie or become a celebrity.”

Research looking at social media effects on teenage boys found that disordered eating behavior, muscle dissatisfaction and use of steroids are associated with more time spent on Instagram. “Findings like these demonstrate that social media can create pressures for boys to display and compare their muscular physiques,” Nagata says.

If social media is the fire, supplements are the gasoline. The use of muscle-building supplements is pervasive, with more than half of boys and men in adolescence through early adulthood taking protein powder or shakes.

The products, which are marketed heavily to boys and men, are not federally regulated for safety or effectiveness and leave unanswered questions of safety. “There’s a lot of research done where they do lab tests on these products and what they say on the label is not even reflective of what’s actually in these bottles, pills, powders,” Austin says.

Trying to figure out what’s safe for an adolescent to use is virtually impossible, experts say. Because of these unknowns, Vargas advises adolescents not to take any supplements.

“If they then want more guidance, then I will refer them to a dietitian within our clinic or a dietitian in the community,” she adds.

... the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends 60 minutes of daily physical activity for children and teens, and exercise and strength training can be a positive for many. But “if a young person wants to increase their physical activity I encourage them to talk about this with their parents, coaches and primary care provider,” Vargas says.

I thought this video was great breakdown of the vile side of masculine/masculinity social media. Not a lot of new talking points particularly for Hexbears but still think it's a good video about many false prophets and wicked gospels. Stay on the path of the righteous leftist dude.

[for the record I hate YouTube thumbnails so much]

IDK this whole men on this site need advice thing has convinced me that people here really think this isn't a safe place to ask questions about how to, IDK, be?. So ask them here I guess if you didn't ask them in the other thread.

I'm drunk and going to sleep now, but I have the day off tomorrow and will sincerely commit to effort-posting responses if anyone has genuine questions they want some in depth advice to.

I will say I'm just a guy who thinks he has enough trips around the sun to have some insight to share but I am not an authority on anything, so anyone else please feel free to chime in

Whenever people are like oh we need to empathize w/ incels, care about their feelings blah blah, I just think about what Lundy Bancroft said about abusers.

They need to learn empathy, and this excessive focus on their feelings is a barrier to them learning empathy.

🐦🔗: https://twitter.com/iHateCogsci/status/1610409758120361984

https://sb-ex6e14yir4.b-cdn.net/media_attachments/files/109/628/430/505/308/353/original/db370a81de5f1eee.png

But this is step 1 of "offering an alternative": recognizing that it takes different skillsets/social conditions to get them well-adjusted, because for whatever reason they're starting from a different psychological basis.

I agree that to some extent the whole idea of focusing on these guys is counterproductive. But focusing on them is not the same as making sure that our movement is equipped to deal with them effectively, without having to relive this generational moment over and over again.

They feel alienated from society because it feels unlivably complex, and they happen to fit enough heuristics of the power group that they feel entitled to deal with that complexity by violently maximizing their adherence to power.

The right takes advantage of this by a) being in power already, b) being the same kind of people, and c) happy to use these guys to further their own interests. So they offer the easy, accessible, lowest-common-denominator solution of just catering to that entitlement.

Of course "Be a good person" doesn't effectively compete. But that doesn't have to be the only narrative the left offers. We need the next step, a narrative that starts with "Be a good person" and builds it into a competitively epic cognitive reward mechanism.

I want to state up first I get it, I'm on the right side, most of these men are awful, and every man-o-sphere influence is awful. Andrew Tate belongs in a 6 foot deep hole, or a hole in the back of his head. Joe Rogan should be sent to the Hague.

But when dudes complain, even about genuine issues, we have a tendency to just attack them for it. If a guy complains that being short can kinda suck (and it can. More so than just getting girls, it can hurt your career and everything.) People, even leftists, tend to just call them a sad manlet or something. Same thing with dudes complaining they can't get a girlfriend, are they not alienated under capitalism? I'm not saying we have to coddle the incels, but we could do better at presenting a future, a better one, maybe?

The discourse about height, and dick size, are both stupid but here (in this safe space) can I admit that there's a point to both? They affect people, it's a real thing.

And back to the Joe Rogan's, I feel bad that men and boys get sucked into that. I have some pity for them, these desperate losers.

Anyways, Im sure I'm going to think this is dumb, but I just can't help but feel like there's a gigantic community of extremely disaffected people that while I mostly loathe, I also really feel bad for. I don't think it would've taken much to push me there, I grew up in a good environment with some good role models, but without that, left to the wolves, I'm as susceptible to the grifters as everyone is.