this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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menby

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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

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Hello comrades, after the success of our Will to Change book club, I'd like to host another reading group here on /c/menby. hooks' work on anti-patriarchal masculinity was hugely insightful for many of us and I'd like to delve further into gender and feminist theory.

The main book I was looking at was Caliban and the Witch: Women, the Body and Primitive Accumulation by Silvia Federici, however other users pointed out that the book suffers from very poor historiography that significantly weakens the arguments she makes, despite having great ideas. If you've read Caliban and still believe it would be an great read, please let me know below.

Please leave any other suggestions for our next book in the comments.

And if you'd like to be added to the ping list for this, let me know.

I look forward to learning about what everyone else has or would like to read!

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago

I recommend Beyond Machismo. Good book that I think pushes a bit more into Bell Hooks points about how our patriarchal is not beneficial for men either. Also please add me to the ping list

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The main book I was looking at was Caliban and the Witch: Women, the Body and Primitive Accumulation by Silvia Federici, however other users pointed out that the book suffers from very poor historiography that significantly weakens the arguments she makes, despite having great ideas.

I was thinking about the tension between Caliban being a useful sort of allegory and the wrong historical info. If it is still a thing people are interested in, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to invite the reddit user /u/sunagainstgold who wrote the linked critiques to participate. She is Cait Stevenson and I don't think it is 100% out of the realm of possibility that she might do so. Before reddit died I was always a fan of hers on there, she has a good POV on many topics and very generous with her time. Or maybe she would know someone else who would be interested.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

That's a great idea, I may reach out to her and gauge her interest

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

Please keep me on the ping list!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I just feel like a dumbass for missing the last book club kitty-birthday-sad

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

It's a short book, and it is written in a very clear and straightforward manner. I missed it too but I was able to catch up pretty easily and now I can't stop talking about this book to everyone

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

As regards to feminist masculinity, I quite liked reading butch women.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Do you have a link to the book or a goodreads page? I'm not able to find one with that name

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Sorry I just meant the general concept of things written by various butch women. :)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

Please add/keep me on the ping list! I don't have a book suggestion, unfortunately, but I am interested in reading in the book club on this.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

I'd also like to be pinged, thank you.