this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
190 points (100.0% liked)

chapotraphouse

13530 readers
1128 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
190
submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 115 points 11 months ago (15 children)

okay but like (not particularly educated take inbound)

the biggest gripe we have with social democracy is that it's fundamentally just a more equitable distribution of plunder from the global south, but that criticism doesn't really hold up when you ARE the global south and it's your resources getting plundered by imperialists

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (7 children)

The criticism of social democracy ultimately boils down to "you're not doing a juche-style degrowth to decouple from imperial satraps". Which is fine and perfectly arguable on its face. But it does lead you to breeze over the policies social democrats are most commonly championing - public sector professional services free at the point of consumption - that would, in fact, get you some of that juche-style degrowth you said you wanted.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

I believe he’s saying that, while social democracy in the global south doesn’t directly serve to cut imperialist ties, the policies implemented by social democrats will do some of that cutting in practice.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

By Juche-style degrowth, do you mean a command economy? Socialism?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

That's more the method than the end goal. Juche is about economic independence. Decoupling yourself from below-cost-of-production imports and waste-exports that an imperial state uses to enrich the core at the expense of the periphery. Command economies and socialist dictatorship of the proletariat can get you there. And one might even argue they're the only economic model that can get you there. But they still need to be pointed in that direction.

A communist economy in South American Country X that harvests lumber from the Amazon in Neighboring Country Y and fills in denuded landscape with landfills of waste generated by the consumption of the lumber isn't self-sufficient, even if its leaders are democratically decided and its capital democratically owned and operated.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)