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natalie shut your dumb cracker ass up
(hexbear.net)
watch her stupid ass cry “i said UNFORTUNATELY” when people give her shit for this like that makes it better
also “60,000”. genocide denial. nobody actually believe israel has only killed 60,000 of these people
i see what shes trying to say but goddamn is she inept at saying it
i also would not classify the us government as uniquely evil because evil among white colonial projects is fundamental to them whether it be us, french, german, british, or whatever
the real question is, is this the moment to get into that argument? and why even pick a side in the russia/ukraine thing? they both suck and ukraine was always going to lose anyways. no point in tying yourself to either horse
I don't, most people in the world can see what is happening in Palestine. if you are contrarian at this point it is Tom Yorke-like egocentrism manifesting
The ironic thing is that despite Contra being the type of person to complain about "purity testing" and such, it's the Marxist position that even in bourgeois in-fights there are better and worse outcomes and that often includes who wins and how.
"Gespräche mit Marx und Engels", by Charles Longuet, Marx's son in law
That both states are evil matters much less than how the outcome of the war will impact the world.
And neither did anyone else, that's just a strawman she created in her head to own the "tankies"
thats the comment of the person she replied to so she didnt create that strawman. shes literally replying to an the question where that is used
i still think the usa isnt "uniquely evil" and i stand by that as i do not believe in american exceptionalism even in the evil department
I feel like it's fairly safe to assume that that person is saying the US is a unique evil at this specific point in history, which is obviously not what Natalie is saying with her purposely vague "modern history" shit. Oh, so more people were killed in WWI than in Gaza the past 18 months? Guess everything is fine then, so get out there and vote blue no matter who!
"the US/the west" is not in fact the same thing as "the US government"
In the current moment, yeah, "the US/the west" basically is uniquely evil, because they make up the imperial core and as a result are simply capable of more harm than any other group. You don't have to be particularly charitable to get that comment to a context where it's pretty damn reasonable.
she said in modern history which covers about 100 years. the japanese invasion of china and unit 731 would certainly fall into that category and they are definitely not "the west" and their specific evilness is more unique than just having power at any given moment. unless you dont count that which in itself is western chauvinist
the other person did not say anything about the "current moment", by the way. you added that
Yeah, they were really bad, but I'm not going to quibble about if 731 was truly and literally "unique" because Mengele also existed, and so did several other projects of torture and murder, though most of the ones that exist at this moment (especially per capita) are being run by either the US or the allies it has the firmest allegiance to, like Israel and Saudi Arabia.
The problem with the US as far as this conversation goes is not simply "having power" and it's absurd to characterize it that way. The proximate issue is not that one country is a big boy and it's unfair on all the human ants that it has license to step on, though I do think ultimately you could argue that that is the problem, but that's also fundamentally the problem with any sort of tyrannical imperial states, such as WWII Japan. If they didn't have the power to enforce it, viewing Chinese and Korean people as lower than animals would still be a problem, but would be a more mundane (albeit still serious) social issue and not a world-historical crisis.
Your attempt at a faux-progressive uno reverse is embarrassing.
Later you say:
hmm . . .
That would be why I said "You don't have to be particularly charitable to get that comment to a context where it's pretty damn reasonable." C'mon, basic reading comprehension please?
In any case, "Oh no, someone did a little hyperbole and didn't fully define their context, now I have no choice but to do imperialist apologia" is not really a great position for Contra to take even if it's true that the person she's responding to spoke a little carelessly.
look at first you were saying nobody said the one thing, which they did, and now you want to get all bent out of shape because she didnt phrase this thing in an exact way to agree which is pretty much what i said in my very first comment that you took issue with. it seems to me like you just want to "win" an argument on the internet so here's your victory. i give up. i dont care about natalie or this petty bullshit to say anything further
Are we both-sidesing Russia and Ukraine now???
Are we going to condemn if a country intervenes for Gaza as well?
The situation of Donbas in 2022 and the situation of Gaza in 2025 are not comparable.
i really hate that english phrase, there are absolutely comparisons you can make on an attempt at "ethnic cleansing" to genocide. of course the conditions in gaza are far far worse than the donbas got to because the nazis didn't have as many years to make it that way as the nazis in israel have, and russia intervened early enough to prevent it, the nuclear situation, and the american puppet being 1/10th as old.
In what ways?
Also, Gaza has been invaded since 2023, and many times before that by the Israelis.
im commenting about what she could have done considering her original post is about that issue. were i in her shoes i wouldnt say the things she says but assuming i held her worldview then sure, why not take the fence-sitter position
personally im not a fan of modern russia (or ukraine) and even though i understand the conditions in why they invaded i still dont like them and theres no point in being their cheerleaders because it doesnt move the needle anyways in regards to their inevitable victory
You don’t like to like Russia to know that intervening to stop ethnic cleansing even at the expense of risking global sanctions that wrecked your economy just 7 years ago was the right thing to do.
Same as understanding that you don’t have to like people like Gaddafi to know that what is being done to Libya is absolutely abhorrent.
Fence sitting here is just coward centrism and taking the same pro-imperialist position as Natalie here.
I like Gaddafi. Pretty sure most people here so as well.
i have protested and supported all the other issues you mention and i even opposed western intervention in ukraine
but i guess if you think saying "i support russia" on the internet is some couragous act then call me a coward or whatever its no sweat off my sack it just comes off as real cringe shit to crash out over it
I never said you have to like or support Russia. I said it is coward centrism to be fence sitting on this specific issue on Ukraine-Russia war.