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China's gonna be a phenomenal world leader.
I mean it's a better plan than invading the country, killing a million people and putting a bunch of pedophiles in charge, that's for certain.
Are you sure? Just because it didnt work the last 20 times doesnt mean we couldnt try again to see if it works
99% of ~~gamblers~~ imperialists quit right before they win big.
Saw a video of a drunk dude fight a bee hive and then the aftermath and I was like "wow imperialism bees edition!"
I get the point. Now, all my aprons come from Pakistan, how are women's rights doing there? Or India? Or Bangladesh?
"Better than before women were employed in factories", OK fine. But this comment should be indistinguishable from r/neoliberal if that place weren't nazis in denial
Its good to be sceptical, but just because one person tells a lie, doesn't make that statement universally a lie.
Nazi neolibs are not speaking in good faith.
women were involved in the industrial workforce in the west from the beginning, and three waves of feminism were still needed - the work not even over after that. So I don't really know if i agree with this take.
Did a single women's liberatory movement succeed before development of the industrial capacity and the incentive capital provides to the national bourgeoisie to see things change?
We must prioritise the prerequisites. Certain material conditions are a necessity to meet before those movements can see success.
EDIT: The phrasing is a bit racist in this part of the manifesto but still relevant:
The rapid improvement of all instruments of production, by the immensely facilitated means of communication, draws all, even the most barbarian, nations into civilisation.
Did a single women's liberatory movement succeed before development of the industrial capacity and the incentive capital provides to the national bourgeoisie to see things change?
I finished Graeber's "History of Everything" not too long ago, and want to say this gets touched on, and the answer is 'yes.'
That said, I gave my copy to my dad and would need to go page through it to cite that, so I very well may be wrong. Plus, it would have been centuries ago anyways, so not sure it's really relevant to your initial question.
Second this. The situation of Women in the 19th century is very deeply tied to the whole "global European empire of terror" and doesn't necessarily reflect conditions in other cultures at other times.
even the most barbarian, nations into civilisation.
counterpoint: its not racist if you call the imperialist nations the barbaric ones
That feels like saying "yeah, but unions existed in 1920, so I don't think I agree that unions were able to win any labor rights." The poster is proposing a process that will initiate gains in womens rights that can't be as easily reversed as gains from an external military imposition, not automatic guarantee of immediate equality.
I much prefer the western strategy where we bomb the shit out of them until they realize how superior our western values^tm^ are.
MY favorite western strategy to instill Western Values™ is to intentionally seek out the most right-wing weirdos in the country, go out of our way to convince them that women's rights is a Communist plot to lead them to Satan, and supply them with stinger missiles
Women's computer camp in the wealthiest corner of the capital.
Western armed warlords across the rural bulk of the nation.
Wagging my finger at the Taliban for hating women because my warlords are losing.
I don't consider it a coincidence in the slightest that women's liberation kicked into high gear with women's employment and education opportunities. Anything else strikes me as cart before the horse.
"Cart before the horse", Christ English is so stupidly polite. I need more vulgarity in phrases, how about "od dupy strony"? "From the ass' side". There you go! Seriously Polish needs to spread it's flexible vulgarity all over the world for a better change.
in finnish we say: "Perse edellä puuhun." which translates to "Climbing a tree ass first." i do enjoy the vulgarity too, fucking english is too puritan for it's own good smdh 
when youre turnt up on dialectical materialism
I don’t know about that. The short-lived communist government of Afghanistan already gave women the rights to enroll in formal education and hold professional jobs, until it was couped by US-backed conservative forces in the name of anti-Soviet communism.
This kind of argument actually sounds more like what a capitalist would say lol. See we are letting women into the workforce to double the labor force and double our profit! That’s progress!
I don’t know about that. The short-lived communist government of Afghanistan already gave women the rights to enroll in formal education and hold professional jobs, until it was couped by US-backed conservative forces in the name of anti-Soviet communism.
Yeah but... That failed.
Not entirely because of women's liberation obviously.. But what do you think will happen if China goes and militarily props up some communists to run Afghanistan? Exactly the same thing that happened with the USSR. Afghanistan doesn't exist in a vacuum and exterior forces will use all of these things as weapons to overthrow the communists. They would absolutely prop up right wing extremists to kick out communists if that is what China installed. It's how we got to where we are today in fact. The method needs to be more durable.
I don't think doing what failed previously will produce different results. The US would back the fucking Taliban if it meant fucking with China via proxy war.
Chinese-backed Taliban vs US-backed Afghan Maoists let's gooooooooo!
Lmao I think we'd need some extraordinary circumstances to get that to happen. I doubt various capitalists were unaware of the danger of what they were doing when they secretly backed russian communists because they were competing with tsarist russia. They were pushed to it.
Not impossible though.
I was 100% joking. Pretty sure if civil war flared up China would simply withdraw and tell whoever wins to call up for some trade deals.
Idk if Bangladeshi women are very liberated. (obviously better than Afghanistan but still)
there still needs to be a transition from capitalism.
He put it very vulgarly but that's more or less a point I've read from other marxists, that proletarianization MAY bring about mass politics
Turn 👏 feudal serf👏 women 👏 into 👏 sweatshop 👏 workers
Yes, that's what China did. They also used media control to blanket the nation in antisexist messages from the moment the PRC was established, but chattel marriage customs only really began to break down in areas where factory work was available - the wage work allowed women to be financially independent from their clans for the first time. Even establishing dictatorship of the proletariat doesn't mean immediate freedom from the harsh contradictions of being a developing country.
no that's not what China did. simply putting women in textile mills is what the british did, and it took a fucking century to get the vote.
This is like accelerationism but for creating capitalism
I could imagine China using policy demands (similar to what the IMF does, but not evil) in exchange for financing, economic development, but IDK if turning Afghanistan into 18th century England will do much good.
Mixed feelings on foreign capital investment. I'd want to see the economic proposals laid out first before coming to any conclusions.
So much better than that whole The cowardly Afghani thing from that thread in the dunk tank
This is essentially true even if they didn't explicitly spell out political struggle that women would have to engage in. Actually existing feudalism hasn't existed anywhere for decades. All that shit about Afghani tribes living in a premodern society is just racism. Afghanistan, like most of the world, has a capitalist economy even if you want to nitpick that the superstructure still has feudal remnants. I mean, the UK still has feudal remnants in its superstructure through their inbred German royals, but no one calls the UK some quaint society that hasn't fully embraced modernity.
And in a capitalist economy, it shouldn't be controversial to say that the prerequisite for workers obtaining political power is for them to join the formal economy, where they can then withhold their labor as workers through worker strikes. Stuff like elevating the lumpenproletariat as the key revolutionary subject makes more sense if we're talking about internal colonies/fourth world where the internally colonized are forcefully denied employment within the formal economy or a (neo)colonial situation where most workers of the formal economy are clerical workers working with the (neo)colonial government in sucking the country dry, but this obviously isn't the case for Afghanistan. Worker strikes imply workers who are part of the formal economy. It's one more tool Afghani women can use to fight for women's rights and dismantle the patriarchy. I'm not sure what's wrong with this or how this is "un-Marxist."
no one calls the UK some quaint society that hasn't fully embraced modernity.
Actually no, China needs to wage holy war on the Taliban and force them all the adopt the version of Islam that Hui people have. Then they'll have female imams and from there powerful female imams will lead the revolutionary vanguard for women's rights.
