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submitted 1 month ago by fne8w2ah@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] jpreston2005@lemmy.world 186 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It is unclear if Gatz was living in the national forest because he was experiencing homelessness.

...Yeah, I think we can safely assume that, yes.

In 2023, the National Homelessness Law Center called on the feds to stop arresting people for living on public lands and shift to a housing- and services-only approach, after undercover Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management police officers shot a disabled man in the back during a removal operation and left (him) paralyzed from the waist down.

He and his family had been living in the Payette National Forest near Boise, Idah, after their landlord reportedly evicted them from their home and they were unable to find space in area shelters.

Just a big reminder that we could end homelessness in America for about $20 billion per year.

That's about the same amount the federal government pays every year to give farmers super cheap crop insurance.

So, it's a choice we're making. Allowing homelessness, and abject poverty to exist, as a cudgel to those who would otherwise seek to drop out of the rat race.

[-] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 78 points 1 month ago

Under capitalism, homelessness is a feature. The spectacle of it keeps those with homes scared of being without.

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[-] LincolnsDogFido@lemmy.zip 27 points 1 month ago

I don't disagree with you that $20 billion is a drop in the federal bucket that would be returned tenfold in improved societal shifts and increases in economic output. I also don't love farm subsidies, but in terms of places to pull $20 billion from, I'd rather start with investments in foreign countries committing genocide and then work our way over to the military budget if that doesn't cover the entire bill.

[-] jpreston2005@lemmy.world 10 points 4 weeks ago

I'm not saying that we should pull the money from crop insurance subsidies, just that we pay like $20 billion a year for a thing that most people have never heard about. We could similarly pay for this with as much gusto.

[-] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago

If billionaires and corporations payed taxes at the same rate we do, we’d be able to do all this.

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 26 points 4 weeks ago

That’s about the same amount the federal government pays every year to give farmers super cheap crop insurance.

Or 1/15 of what we're paying Iran for "losing" the war.

[-] matthurtme@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago

It's not the people's choice. It's the Epstein class that owns 93% of all the wealth in America

[-] SacralPlexus@lemmy.world 4 points 4 weeks ago

$20B per year? That’s wild given that we have reportedly been spending $1B per day doing god knows what in this Iran war.

Got to have your priorities I suppose. /s

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[-] PattyMcB@lemmy.world 69 points 1 month ago

With the way shit is going, I don't blame the guy for wanting to live alone in the woods

[-] killea@lemmy.world 51 points 1 month ago

His residence was a giant pile of garbage. I mean, he's not like, 3M or Mr. Burns, but we I don't think we want people trash dumping in national parks. They're in enough danger as it is. If you move your campsite every 14 days and don't litter, you could live there indefinitely, it would seem.

[-] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

This residence is a giant pile of garbage.

https://earthship.com/2020/03/30/sustainable-luxury-in-the-phoenix-earthship/

You're assuming he surrounded himself with piles of festering useless waste. More likely he had the stuff he cared about and the supplies he needed, and they just took everything and threw it away, cause that's what cops do to the homeless.

Nevermind, I read it.

[-] thejoker954@lemmy.world 43 points 1 month ago

I'm all for living in the woods, but this guy was definitely doing it wrong multiple ways

[-] rozodru@piefed.world 43 points 1 month ago

I do volunteer work for a couple homeless orgs in Canada and reading this story doesn't surprise me. he wasn't "doing it wrong" he was doing what was logical in his head. I see guys all the time carrying around bags or pushing a car literally filled with garbage. paper, cans, tim hortons cups, whatever. They pick it up, they keep it. It's a form of hording. It's not so much "I could potentially use this one day" its more like "I have nothing and having something makes me feel a bit more normal". It's 100% a mental illness and you always find it with older individuals. They carry around too much and the majority of which they don't need but they carry it because they need "something". They need some kind of possession. they just collect garbage.

[-] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 4 points 4 weeks ago

I never thought about it in that way, but it certainly makes sense to try and get a bit of control and normalcy back.

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[-] treehugger6@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

I'm making plans to do that

[-] anarchy79@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago

Likewise. I was homeless and lived like that. It was hard but also one of the most liberating experiences of my life. I already had survival training and lots of outdoors experience which helped.

Things are looking pretty grim for me again and I have been stocking up on supplies, bought all the gear I need for a prolonged stay outdoors, tent, clothes, everything.

I'm not gonna get caught living in a trashy one man summer tent in the middle of winter again, I'm gonna be homeless in style.

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[-] Kurtismayfield@lemmy.zip 34 points 4 weeks ago

"Detained because of flight risk"

Hes poor, he's homeless. Where the fuck is he going to go?

[-] FunStuffIsFun@eviltoast.org 41 points 4 weeks ago
[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 30 points 1 month ago

I guess "1000lbs of trash" doesn't sound as bad as "half a ton"?

That's like, maybe 1-2 months of household, curbside waste for an average family. This dude was living there for 8 years.

If he was there for 8 years, that means he was paying taxes into the system for 40 years before he nope'd out and headed to the woods, which his taxes paid for.

And this is what he gets in return. Tsk tsk.

[-] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 38 points 1 month ago

He'd accumulated this pile during 2 years at this site, so he's left similar messes in several other places. And he's got a long history of careless fires, like leaving them burning, even at the height of fire season. And he's got an SUV, so it's not like he couldn't have taken his trash out.

"The trash consisted of tires, plastic bags. trash bags, aluminum cans and other items of trash. I observed a canopy structure for his sport utility vehicle. The canopy structure was being utilized as a car port.”

Gatz, who is 65 years-old, according to public records, also had a fireplace with “active embers and a cooking station with 10-12 frying pans,” as well as “[d]ebris [that] consisted of three ladders, six to eight totes overfilled with debris… five black 55-gallon drums… eight tires, four bike frames, five gallons of motor oil, plywood, and other miscellaneous lumber around the campsite,”

That's not necessary stuff, it's a wildfire waiting to happen.

[-] exaybachae@startrek.website 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Actually, a lot of that sounds pretty practical.

The barrels would work as slow burn barrels for long term heat on cold nights, the bike parts could be a source of income (part bikes > full bikes to sell), more than 2 pans seems too many, but he may go through them fast if used over an open fire (depending on the type of pan), for millennia campers kept fires buring over night or for days to make cooking later easier (yes it's risky in some situations, but practical in general), and covering his car would ensure it looked cleaner and required lower maintenance (both have a lot of perks for a homeless person trying to live cheaply and fly under the radar). I'm not sure about the tires, but keeping cans and some other materials can def provide a source of income.

Nothing is ever really disposable, except the abusive people in your life. We could all benefit from less of those. Everything else is reusable or recyclable. Just listing this guys possessions without explanations for them makes them easy to dismiss as trash, but that isn't necessarily even close to honest. He likely had some actual waste on site from food prep or completed projects, but by no means was all his stuff trash.

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[-] horn_e4_beaver@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I guess “1000lbs of trash” doesn’t sound as bad as “half a ton”?

That’s like, maybe 1-2 months of household, curbside waste for an average family.

I'm sorry, WHAT?

[-] munk@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Individually, the average American generated 4.9 pounds of waste per day in 2018

4.9 lb/day x 4 people x 30 days = 588 lbs, so really not that far off.

https://govfacts.org/housing-infrastructure/solid-waste-management/waste-collection-disposal/where-americas-waste-goes/

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[-] hissingmeerkat@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

One pickup load of trash, or what everybody who doesn't pay for trash service accumulates before driving it to the dump for $10.

Either he's hauling his trash out or he's extremely good at eliminating waste.

(He was there for 2 years)

[-] anarchy79@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

Having been homeless and lived in a forest, you really don't create much trash. Depends I guess, but you just don't consume much when you're broke and living in a tent outside of society.

Great for the waistline too. Lots of outdoors activity and a perpetual caloric deficit.

[-] Montagge@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 month ago

I'd put money on him dumping it in a ravine nearby that they haven't found yet

[-] SpermHowitzer@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

Uhhh, 1-2 months?!? It’s just two of us in our household, but we usually don’t fill one 45L kitchen trash bag every two weeks by the time trash pickup comes. So probably 15lbs every two weeks? So about 60lbs every two months. It would be unfathomable to produce 1000lbs in two months.

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[-] joeljoelle@piefed.blahaj.zone 21 points 1 month ago
[-] skhayfa@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago
[-] joeljoelle@piefed.blahaj.zone 16 points 1 month ago

I treat parks better than I treat myself

[-] stringere@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

Welcome to the Tonto National Forest, please treat us better than you.

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[-] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago

Man caught

Sounds like he wasn't doing anything wrong or harming anyone in any meaningful capacity.

Why not just let him live in peace?

[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago

But he didn't pay anyone anything!!! Lol

[-] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 month ago

It is unclear if Gatz was living in the national forest because he was experiencing homelessness.

How the fuck is this "unclear"? Do they think this was just his daytime hangout location, and that he went "home" every night to sleep indoors? smh.

[-] btsax@reddthat.com 13 points 4 weeks ago

Yes, sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie, I put that envelope under that garbage.

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[-] treehugger6@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

What do you mean "caught"?

[-] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 9 points 1 month ago
[-] treehugger6@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Yes, but the word caught implies he was doing something illegal

[-] EpeeGnome@feddit.online 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

There are laws about unattended open fires and trash removal when camping on federal lands. He was breaking those laws. There's other rules about how long you can camp in the same place, but in a lot of areas they usually look the other way as long as you are living in a way that doesn't damage the area. He was also on National Forest park land, which is much stricter about residency than BLM land is.

[-] Montagge@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago
[-] Bakkoda@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

The entire headline is just monumentally misleading if I read half of this right lol

[-] Ariselas@piefed.ca 7 points 1 month ago

Just a guy living his best life and society just can't leave him alone

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As long as he's cleaning up his trash I don't mind. Kinda sounds like he wasn't though.

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this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2026
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