Online threats to children are real, but the headlong pursuit of age verification that we’re seeing around the world is unacceptable in its approach and far too broad in scope — and we simply can’t afford to get this wrong.

To be clear, parents’ concerns are valid and sincere. Few people would argue that kids should have unfettered access to adult material, to self-harm how-tos, to social media platforms that manipulate them and expose them to abuse.

But it’s the very depth of those worries that is being cynically exploited. Age verification as is currently being proposed in country after country would mean the death of anonymity online.

And we know exactly who stands to gain: The same tech giants who built the privacy nightmare that the internet is today.

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[–] 126 points 4 months ago (8 children)

He has a vested interest in saying that, but he's right, and it would be awful

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Proton has activists' identities at stake, of course they're doing their best to defend them

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  • [–] 31 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    It's interesting what people expect of Proton Mail. I've used it for a long time but for only one reason really: their revenue stream is my subscription and not ads. I've never even given a second thought to all their encryption claims. Even with Proton Mail if I ever wanted to send a "secret" email I'd wrap the content in my own personal keys.

    With respect to IP addresses of email logins, I'm surprised they ever claimed they don't have logs. You've always been able to review the IP of a login through the web UI as far as I remember. Was the idea that that was also supposed to be encrypted?

    Personally I'm OK with them complying with court orders, but I understand that "the definition of criminal is state defined" and that poses serious issues. It kinda seems like if you want to do something that could be considered criminal at some point in your life by your country you should consider something other than a 3rd party email provider for those messages. Signal would be a step up in that regard if you still wanted to use a third party.

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  • [–] 62 points 4 months ago (24 children)

    I mean, I've got boxes full of physical books and self hosted movies and Tv. At that point, I'll just stop using the internet. I need to go outside more anyway.

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    [–] 48 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    Make social media unprofitable instead of this.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Basically don't allow ads for kids and only show social media posts from their friends in chronological order instead of any fancy algorithm. Also make them liable for showing scams to minors. That kills most profit.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago

    Kill it from the other direction. Make it illegal to algorithmically adjust a users experience to prioritize interaction regardless of whether that's positive or negative. Ultimately that's the problem with places like Facebook, they weigh an angry rant the same as a positive one, higher even in a lot of cases. Things that make people angry generate a lot more interaction than positive things so it drowns people in hate and fear. If you treat any interaction as a positive signal things just devolve.

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  • [–] 44 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    Clearly this man is a genius.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    The nightmare trap of the Two Party System is that you can look at one party cozying up to Big Tech (Obama in 2009) and conclude the other party must be reflexively in opposition.

    Trump was fully surrounded by Thiel goons before he'd even left office in '21. And the relationship only got tighter with his Elon Musk Bromance. But hey, if you'd just elected Kamala Harris and Liz Cheney Tim Walz to the White House, I'm sure nobody would be talking about how much of their cabinet was stuffed with Silicon Valley cutouts.

    It's not like a cartel of trillionaires can buy up both parties at once, right?

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    [–] 42 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    Anyone think that's not the point?

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  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    "Age Verification" is just them attaching "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" to their push to have every single bit of information about every person on the planet.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago*

    All the more ironic when you realise that some of the big businessmen and lobbyists pushing for mandatory age verification checks are in the Epstein Files. Basically the kind of people who you don't want to be thinking of the children...

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Social media functions as a kind of gatekeeper for public interactions, not unlike credit scores, driver's licenses, and college degrees. The absence of a presence on social media is not only socially debilitating (you're cut out of the information stream for local events and public amenities) but a red-flag for college recruiters and employers. It's much like how not using a credit card regularly in your teens/20s impacts your ability to access low-interest lending in your 30s/40s. Or not having a driver's license interferes with your right to vote.

    State officials have been searching for a kind of uniform, iron-clad, easily verifiable public ID for ages. Linking your online presence (a thing that you need for a myriad of daily tasks) to your ID becomes a pathway to this goal. Universal, non-transferable digital ID becomes a wicked two-edged sword as it both exhaustively tracks the "documented" individuals and neatly severs the "undocumented" from society.

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  • [–] 36 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Man, parents not wanting anything to do with their kids' upbringing will believe anything, huh. They'd rather offload any and all responsibilities to automation than spend one minute teaching kids how to protect themselves.

    Then again, they probably don't know, either.

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    [–] 28 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    Can we make a new internet?

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Yes, have a look at reticulum. No centralized addressing authority. No centralized domain naming system. Everything is globally routeable. It also just got support for transferring HTTP with RServer and MeshBrowser.

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    [–] 27 points 4 months ago

    That's quite obviously the end goal here.

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  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    How long before we get a Meshtastic style, decentralized internet?

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    [–] 23 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    This whole conversation is such a false dichotomy. The laws can absolutely be written such that companies are required to suspend service to any suspected child without requiring ID to use the service.

    But just like pollution and everything else we've let them push the buck to us.

    The problem is that politicians don't want to legislate enforcement/oversight entities as those would piss off their owners.

    Democracies need to replace their lame duck politicians with ones that aren't bought and owned by the shareholder class who also own the social media corporations.

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    [–] 22 points 4 months ago

    "Could" is a funny way of saying "are obviously intended to". Stop playing around, call it out directly. Points where you must have your ID checked are, in fact, ID checkpoints.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It bothers me that we know that this bullshit has nothing to do with the kids and is probably being lobbied by the genocide gang and AI companies, even more that it has become obvious that the only value AI has is mass monitoring, but nobody abords the real issue. We are playing their book.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago*

    99.9% navigate the system and grow up perfectly fine, or fine enough. We shouldn't have to completely surrender our anonymity for the tiny percentage that went wrong.

    Before the Internet, some people got weird, and in the Internet era, some people are going to go weird. Age verification isn't going to change that.

    This isn't about the kids. We all know it.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Kids don't have unfettered access if they are supervised, lol. And age gating will fail regardless. So it's a failure followed by another failure, sigh.

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    [–] 17 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Maybe Kaczynski had a point by running off to the woods and living in a cabin.

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    [–] 16 points 4 months ago

    "It's for the KIDS, you COMMIE!"

    It's time we stop accepting that rationalization as valid.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

    Theres a big wide internet beyond apps and social media.

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    [–] 15 points 4 months ago

    Stating the obvious.

    META was a major lobbyist for all of the state bills we’ve seen so far. There’s probably more. Or META is taking the lead because most hate them already, which provides a nice distraction from anyone else involved.

    Tech and data centers want our data. What better way for a complete data set is there? I’m sure Palantir is in there somewhere.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    If this becomes widespread, I just won't use any websites that require it. There will always be ways around it or alternatives for people opposed to losing their privacy. There already are at least 2 Internets. There's reddit and Facebook and Twitter and all the corporate news sites, and then there's Lemmy and archive.org and the dark web and dev pages and independent websites and piracy. I find I rarely care about the former anyway. It'll just mean being blocked off from all the corporate slop, which may be a blessing in disguise.

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    [–] 11 points 4 months ago

    Dark web 2.0, here we come!

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (9 children)

    This moron is also a MAGA appologist and enabler. I left Proton for other alternatives. They want to claim they are "politically nuetral" well if you really were you wouldnt be commenting at all on politics would you?

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    I must have missed a bunch. I only recall him saying he liked trumps pick for one role.

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    [–] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)
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