...things need to change, or Toyota, the world's largest car company by sales, "will not survive."

...If Toyota feels like it's losing ground, then the ground is probably moving.

The problem isn't just one thing, either. It's everything, everywhere, all at once. Chinese automakers are gaining ground quickly and setting a new standard for manufacturing costs. Software is becoming a core part of cutting-edge vehicle. Tariffs are still a thing. The auto industry has seen more upheaval in the last few years than it did over the last several decades...

Toyota has always had extremely strict quality standards...But that could soon change.

The brand is implementing something that it calls "Smart Standard Activity." This is meant to slash...quality standards...Toyota believes it will lower the price of its components...

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[–] 123 points 6 months ago (28 children)

I bet if someone just came out with some simple cheapish electric cars without all the fancy bullshit then their sales will increase. Stop screwing over your customers and maybe they’ll replace their 15 year old cars.

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  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago* (10 children)

    I've been keeping an eye on this: https://www.slate.auto/en

    Stripped down, simple, no touchscreen bs, and the vehicle is customizable through their website. Pricing and ship dates are going to be announced next week if I remember correctly.

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  • [–] 36 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    I hate that slate is backed by Jeff Bezos I'm sure he'll find a way to fit some spyware or ai in there. I really can't see him backing it for altruistic reasons

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Ah damn, I didn't know that goblin ass bastard was involved. Welp, not wasting my time with that.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    If the car fits your needs, don't let the dude sway you from it. You'll find it to be pretty exhausting to find something that fits your desire perfectly without any issues.

    The important thing is to support EVs to help normalize them and drive them forward. I'm sure your ideal EV will be out there eventually, maybe that company feels it's risky to do so right now.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I do like the Slate, and I ordered one immediately, but I so wish they made a car instead of a dumb truck with terrible aero and a bed I'm never going to use.

    I know there's a SUV package but certainly that will add a huge premium to the price. I'm pretty sure the "mid-20s" is the "entry" price and bottom-dollar to get eyeballs and then all the upgrades will be crazy overpriced.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

    Cutting features doesn't cut costs as much as you might think.
    LED strips are very cheap. Going back to real buttons costs more than touchscreens, not less.

    Chinese vehicles are so much cheaper for lots of reasons. From cheaper labor generally, to actual under the counter government subsidies.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago

    Chinese EVs are cheaper because the components are made in the same country, often in the same city, and perhaps in the factory down the street. Transporting stuff costs money and forward-thinking industrial planning can reduce these costs.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Yup. A huge part of the cost is the batteries, the electric motors, the sensors and controllers that manage charging and discharging.

    Looking around at home battery backup solutions, for example, simply having the same storage capacity as an EV (50-75 kwh) can cost almost as much as an EV itself.

    Jackery has add on batteries for about $1000 for 5 kwh, Ecoflow and Anker Solix cost $2000 for 6 kwh.

    At those prices, a 60kwh battery pack in an EV basically represents $12,000 to $20,000 in battery cost alone, plus a whole system around charging it and using it for an electric motor, and then a whole car around that.

    It's not a perfect comparison, but it does show that the actual material cost of what goes into an EV is primarily the electric drivetrain and battery.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    Jackery, Ecoflow and Anker are all going to be crazy overpriced because they spend all their money on marketing. That's why you see them absolutely everywhere.

    Some of the good Chinese brands are selling 5kWh for ~$800. And even that has a markup that these Chinese auto brands won't.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Like Amazon undercutting dipers to take over and then raise the prices. China is doing similar on the scale of nations. They want to be the next US in 50ish years. They're using economics to do it.

    China is intentionally undercutting the rest of the world in clean energy tech, to establish a global monopoly. They see how important it will be, and want the world to be dependent on China for its energy.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    But don’t you see? I need my car to cradle my balls. They just didn’t do that in the old cars.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    My GluckGluck9000 has a huge touchscreen which only knocks off 100 miles of range while I’m gooning

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    [–] 69 points 6 months ago (16 children)

    Toyota fucked themselves over by having super rightwing leadership who were willingly blind to the ways in which being super rightwing makes you a dumbass.

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  • [–] 52 points 6 months ago (15 children)

    ☝️

    Everyone has seen the way forward, the Japanese automakers put their fingers in their ears and went "na na na na!" for years. Now Korea and China are way ahead.

    Conservativism is a disease for any society.

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  • [–] 35 points 6 months ago* (2 children)

    Conservativism is a disease for any society.

    Yes, it is essentially a contagion on societies and it is growing like crazy right now. We must understand this threat for what it is.

    Too many people look at the US and think we are uniquely stupid when the difference is our conservatives are more empowered and worshipped than in other countries. It is a dangerous mistake to think there aren't rightwing fascist ignorant assholes who want to turn your country into a place like the US no matter where you are, anywhere on earth.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Feeling it over here in Canada...where even the Liberals are Conservative and the Socialists are centrists...

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    Never let people in your country forget that there is nothing special about their nationalism and their particular flavor of rightwing xenophobia. It is all the same product just with a slightly different shitty label plastered on depending on where in the world you are.

    Rightwing ideologies that traffic in dehumanizing groups of people are all violent, they ALL lead to the same place the US is rocketing towards.

    I think one of the best ways to fight violent rightwing ideologies obsessed with exclusion, austerity and seeing everything through a zero sum framing no matter what, is to loudly point out to everybody around the periphery of these ideologies that they haven't stumbled on a new idea, the words they are saying are the same broken record playing in the US and elsewhere.

    Call toxic rightwing violent men who pride themselves in projecting whatever identity they identify as The Original or The Superior shitty cheap knockoffs of US rightwing culture. Other them from their own context by pointing out there isn't any actually unique localized identity to their beliefs beyond a superficial crust. Even if this doesn't get under their skin, that isn't the point, the point is to undermine their call towards reducing your societies horizons by pointing out to everybody the horizons those people want are themselves foreign, imposed and twisted in specific ways that don't take into account your local context at all.

    Point to the US and emphasize that person is arguing for the same ideology that is tearing the US down into poverty, misery and war. Use people's natural desire to shit on the US as stupid from outside the US to open the door to them seeing their local homegrown version is literally the same stupid shit just without the megaphone the US has.

    A specific example, invite people into laughing at how stupid some aspect of the US with a joke or comment, then point out that the conservatives in your area look up to the rightwing people that made those choices here in the US and look them in the eyes with a smile.

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  • [–] 37 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Drivers want affordable electric vehicles. If you still cant do that profitably, you have no business being in the automobile industry.

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    [–] 36 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/

    Other top offenders include Volkswagen, which collects demographic data (like age and gender) and driving behaviors (like your seatbelt and braking habits) for targeted marketing purposes; Toyota, which features a near-incomprehensible galaxy of 12 privacy policy documents;

    Hard to care when they're evil.

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  • [–] [S] 33 points 6 months ago*

    Have the consequences of under investing in EV tech and over-reliance on the nonsensical USAmerican economy caught up with the world's largest car company?

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  • [–] 32 points 6 months ago

    So Toyota's plan to compete in a changing world is to... copy Chrysler (Stellantis)?

    No wonder they're worried for their future.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago

    Oh, Toyota will not survive. For a moment there I thought he was acknowledging the existential risk to global civilisation caused in part by his company's products.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Toyota did nearly nothing for E-Cars. So of course they will fall.

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  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    It was so frustrating to watch too since they did so much for pushing hybrids. They were the face of the “eco car” and they could have pivoted to fully electric and people would have just gone with it.

    Instead they pulled a Sears. Sears had the catalog business down and would have destroyed upstarts like Amazon if they wanted to pivot to online sales, instead they stuck their head in the sand and suffocated.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Or like Blockbuster refusing to adapt, and also not buying Netflix for cheap twice when they had the chance. Or Kodak literally creating the digital camera...

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  • [–] 23 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Good. Good riddance to bad rubbish, they actively worked to stop, and then to slow the EV transition. They still make shite EVs.

    May they be soon forgotten.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Here’s to hoping the whole dealership model crashes & burns as well.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    I understand the sentiment but it’s also intended to make sure there is a location with parts and people trained to repair the vehicles they sell. The cost reduced alternative may be worse.

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    [+] 15 points 6 months ago*
    [–] 14 points 6 months ago*

    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.

    -- Wayne Gretzky.

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  • [+] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
    [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    But they SUCKED UP to Trump and ELIMINATED their Vehicle models that DONT use Oil? HOW is THAT a Losing Strategy?

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    So, they're going to just make cheaper gas cars to compete with EVs?

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