"I wish Supergiant would get the roguelite bug out of their system and make sequels to Bastion and then Transistor finally."
Was what I typed in our group chat. The three of us are mid to late 30s with me being the oldest by 3 months.
To say it went over like a brick balloon would be an understatement. So, I wanted to see if fellow game players had thoughts on it. Am I crazy? Do you agree?
I trust them to do what they want. I hope they don't do a hades 3, at least anytime soon, but 2 flowed from 1 the same as 1 flowed from pyre. Bastion and Transistor are amazing, but I'm not even convinced either warrants a sequel. I would love more games like them though. In general I wish more indie devs started with something like those games
What I want Supergiant to do is.... whatever the fuck they want.
Yeah I say let them cook. Their "worst" game is Pyre (iirc it really didn't sell well) and it's still a very good game.
I really wanted to like it more because they made some really cool choices in the design of it. I can see why it didn't sell well, but it should have at least been more influential
I'm with you on wishing they'll move on after Hades 2, but I don't want sequels to Transistor and Bastion. I'd prefer they make something new again.
But really I can't blame Supergiant for playing it safe because the last time they tried to make something truly unique it bombed hard (Pyre).
Agreed on this. They're just so good at making new interesting things that it feels like a bit of a shame to waste time on sequels. I even really enjoyed Pyre, despite it being generally considered the weakest of their games; it was such an interesting setting and premise.
Bastion and Transistor both had very satisfying conclusions to their stories and revisiting either doesn't feel necessary.
I agree, but mostly because I dislike roguelikes. They get too repetitive and turn into a slog, and the success of your runs is often entirely dependent on which items you find.
I’d much rather have a tight, concise game with handmade maps. IME, roguelikes just pull the old NES/SNES trick of “well we can’t fit more data on the game cart, so just make the game harder to force players to replay it over and over again. That will artificially inflate the game length.”
Bastion and Transistor don’t need sequels, but I do wish they’d stop with the roguelikes.
Thats really not what roguelikes are. They wouldnt be one of the most popular genres ever if the base was laziness. Its more like being able to focus fully on the mechaincs/gameplay instead of spending countless hours designing worlds that either end up feeling repetitive anyway or you need to spend another few chunks of countless hours to make it feel good.
Besides, Hades is by faaaaaar their most successful game, it would be objectively stupid not to keep going with that at least for a while.
I dislike roguelikes and soulslikes. It feels like that cuts out the vast majority of indie games being made nowadays.
I strongly disagree on their roguelite "bug" being something they need to drop.
Bastion didn't land for me, so I didn't play it, but Transistor would have shined as a roguelite. Its combat system is far too complex, and has potential for so much more, than what can be explored in one or two playthroughs.
The same goes for Cloudbank as a narrative setting.
Transistor, but with Hades' gameplay loop and storytelling style would be insane. It already felt like a roguelite, but without a gameplay or narrative reason to go in for multiple runs.
Supergiant hasn't cought a roguelite bug... They've found the perfect narrative and game format to match the gameplay systems and worlds they like to create.
Bastion is an absolute stinker of a game.
It's completely pedestrian, and there are so many bad design decisions it's hard to even take it seriously.
It's a game where marketing really did its job because the game could never carry itself based on its presentation or mechanics.
It was really groundbreaking to have the narrator react to what you were doing, in a "Half-Life feels like a real world that you inhabit" way. The way the music was woven into the game was also amazing, and the art! There's a reason it put them on the map.
I didn't like the gameplay all that much though and the world building didn't make too much sense to me. These parts have aged the most poorly. But it was way better than just marketing.
It wasn't groundbreaking, it was a bad design decision. Evidenced by the fact the biggest patch was a toggle to take the fking narrator out.
And they weren't even the first.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. The narrator was my favorite part. That or the music.
Why would anyone have that strong a view about what you said...? I'm not clamouring for sequels particularly for those games, though I'd love more games like them. Then again, whatever gets me more beautiful soundtracks from Darren Korb.
Because that first sentence sounds like a diss on Hades.
None of those games need sequels, and neither did Hades. I get why they did, because it was the first time they weren't veering on bankruptcy and could use a bigger safety net, but doubling down on this lack of creativity is hardly what I expect from Supergiant.
I loved Bastion and Transistor and wished for sequels for both. But SG clearly seemed to prefer to not make sequels for its games all these years; to my knowledge, it has never made one. I’m not sure what or who changed at the company, but Hades 2 is an anomaly.
Has anyone interviewed someone at SG to ask sequel questions? If not, maybe someone will once H2 gets closer to officially shipping.
IIRC they (or at least their design lead) explicitly stated that since the founders were Diablo fans, something like Hades was basically their dream.(And imo you can already see some of that in Bastion and Transistor so I don't think it was PR talk) So it's not surprising they'd go for a sequel given how well it was received. But I'm sure they'll stop soon enough, they don't seem to be the kind of studio that is in it for the money and I'm sure Hades and Hades 2 are giving them more than enough money to take creative risks in the future.
I never finished bastion but I really liked it. I should replay it
You really should.
As a long time SGG fan i agree. Personally im sad we're getting a hades 2.
Bastion and Transistor absolutely don't need sequels though
Hades did straight numbers, not a shocker they'd go for another. Couldn't see Transistor or Bastion getting sequels, (Or Pyre but... lol Pyre.) and more importantly, I'd rather they tell new stories.
I think I'm just getting sick of rogue likes. It seems there is another one being pushed every time I open steam. I find them all way too similar and frankly the loop of roguelikes is annoying to me. So, I would like to see them develop something else, I don't see it happening.
Hades was good. Rogue legacy was good. Dead cells was good. Brotato was good. Vampire survivors was good. Wizard of legend was good. Star of Providence was good. After those, though, I hit a wall. So, overall I agree. I wish the industry would move away from the genre, but it's not happening anytime soon.
Have you played Binding of Isaac though? The king of roguelikes
I did. I wasn't a fan. I played it when it first released, and it was my first rogue-like but I didn't really like the games presentation. It's pretty gross. Plus, I was pretty bad at it since I only played fps and rpg games at the time, so that didn't help. I'm sure people won't like that answer.
Risk of Rain is what dipped my toes more in the genre, and I only played it since my friends wouldn't stop talking about it. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have given the genre another chance.
I play a lot of roguelikes because I rarely have the time for a multiple hour gaming session anymore, and I can get a complete start to finish game in with a roguelike in 30-60 minutes. I think that may be part of the popularity.
I've played all the ones you mentioned, my recent vices are Magicraft & Star Vader's, both on steam. Slay the Spire & The Binding of Isaac are two I always come back to during my "what should I play?" moments.
Yeah. The shorter game sessions are what drew me in initially. Tie that with handheld gaming and it's just a perfect combo of quick play convenience. I'm probably just hitting burn out and need a break.
Slay the spire is another good one I forgot about. I played it heavy on the switch back when it was released.
Be careful what you wish for, they could start making Vampire Survivor likes!
I enjoyed Bastion and Transistor.
I also preferred Hades to either.
IDK why just until now it strikes me that Supergiant Games are the same dudes that created Hades and Bastion lol.
I have the exact same take, and the exact same experience with my friend group. I love supergiant games. Anything they touch is solid gold imo. I've always said that Hades is an amazing game, it's just supergiant's worst game.
Personally, I think for me, it comes down to the setting. Bastion, Transistor and Pyre all had amazing, unique settings that made me as a player want to learn and explore everything I could. And again, Hades does an amazing job of painting the setting and fleshing out the characters, but it's kinda just Greek mythology, which has been done before and I personally find it less interesting.
To restate, Hades is an amazing game, just imo it's supergiants worst game.
Wouldn’t pyre be the worst by sales numbers? I think your bias against roguelike’s is showing here.
Hades is massively popular and well liked by a lot of people.
I love roguelikes, probably one of my favorite genres, so much so that I started playing rogue for a while to see what the OG was like.
And by sales numbers, 100% Pyre would be their worst game, but I'm far past judging a games content by its sales at this point.
And it's easy to see why Hades is loved by so many, it's a great game! Just definitely my least favorite of all of Supergiant's stuff.
Agreed.
tbh, I loved SuperGiant's themes and aesthetics, but not their gameplay. So often early games of Bastion and Transistor felt squishy, or like I was playing underwater - the response loop from button push to effect on screen seemed laggy. Tried both on various platforms, never really got past that feeling. lovely soundtracks tho
Bastion is a 6/10 beat-em-up with 10/10 art, music, and voice acting. I enjoyed that game a lot (and still listen to the soundtrack on road trips), but boy does the atmosphere carry the weight of an otherwise average game.
Pretty forgivable since it was their first effort. Hades feels nice and crisp while keeping all the other points strong, too.
To be honest, I think they only made a sequel to Hades because it was so popular. I actually quite like that they create new universes every game. I also like the core gameplay of Pyre (not so much the mini-games) unlike most people. It sort of feels like Ballmasterz turned into a super cereal game to me. It probably inspired the show, which ever came first.
I watched this video a while back. Apparently, they were looking to develop a universe that they could make a sequel in. They ended up with Hades.
Bastion, Transistor, and Pyre 100% do not need a sequel. They are stories about the end of the world and are beautiful in how self contained they are.
I am not the biggest on the roguelike mechanics for such story heavy games but... I would be lying if I said that Hades didn't repeatedly break me with the way it was used to convey Zagreus's relationship with the other characters.
spoiler
Hades just putting down his weapon and letting you pass is easily one of my top ten of all time gaming moments.
I am a bit skeptical on Hades 2. Then I remembered I was skeptical on Hades 1. As far as I am concerned, Supergiant (and Greg Kasavin) can do no wrong.
I understand the skepticism, but Hades 2 is pretty fantastic, in my opinion. It does a lot to distinguish itself while still retaining what made the first one fun. I've got a little less than 200 hours in both of them.
Your friends are wrong. I completely agree with you. Bastion was amazing and I would love to see a follow up or a new ip that builds upon it without the roguelite genre.
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