He's right
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An important caveat though:
"The authors explain that one of the limitations of this study is that drug harms are functions of their availability and legal status in the UK, and so other cultures' control systems could yield different rankings."
Cocaine is still illegal, and by extension less available. I'm no expert, but I have to imagine that is affecting the rankings here significantly.
Yeah, but it's be hard to tell whether legalization would lower the rating or raise it as there's a lot of confounding factors. For example overdoses and direct mortality would probably go down since people could dose properly instead of guessing. Crime and financial issues could also go down with an open market making it cheaper and safer.
On the other hand larger scale societal problems could be revealed by mass availability. Also more health problems from chronic use could be revealed once legalization allows for more and larger studies. Or maybe current studies on it are overestimating the harms because current illicit cocaine users tend to be unhealthy for other reasons and your average person will have less problems with cocaine use.
Either way I think it'd be hard to argue cocaine isn't at least on the same level as alcohol and should be legal. Contrary to mainstream discourse that views it as some evil powder that will make you addicted if you even look at it.
I don't think any drug should be illegal. I hate cocain. He's right. Alcohol is fucking terrible
Yeah. I think DUI and other laws are generally good ideas. I don't care that much if someone wants to do coke, but I really don't want drunk drivers or people nodding off on heroin operating heavy machinery.
There also should be a lot more social programs to help people quit when they want to. And probably more honest education about how yes, even you can get addicted.
I think people should have the liberty to buy and injest whatever they want.
However, you should not be allowed to sell whatever you want to other people. The power dynamics between companies and consumers is not balanced, and capitalism will always find ways to abuse its costumers for profit. That's why some countries are trying to regulate ultra processes foods and sugary foods.
So yeah, you should be free to carry fentanyl and use it. But not to give it or sell it to anyone without restrictions. Same with all other drugs.
This is a black and white over-simplified overview of my stance, because you also need nuance. Does it benefit society to require that certain jobs be done by people who are absolutely sober and thus go through regular drug tests? Does it benefit society that some people be sentenced to mandatory rehab? Or does it benefit society more to have freedom to trade and consume drugs? Your freedom to use drugs might interfere with my fredom to leave the house safely.
I can get behind this, generally speaking.
Thats it. No more aspirin for you.
Just to add a note that this graph comes from a study made on rats. I love the study and i use this graph frequently when discussing drugs, but i think it's important to know.
Being done on rats also raises the point that it's done excluding a mental component of using the drug, like for instance how some people use cigarettes in depression for its antidepressant effect or use alcohol to cope with mental health issues.
It also doesn't explore the mental health effects of repeated exposure to large doses of hallucinogens on people, which we still don't have research on because of how demonized hallucinogens are in most countries doing research on drugs.
I've been doing an exhaustive study for the last couple of decades on the effects of whiskey on a human with mental health issues.
Feedback?
It's hard to write down scientific conclusions when you black out at the end of the night, but so far I wouldn't recommend it. I'll try again tonight and get back to you.
Your commitment to science is commendable
Interesting! Do you have a link to the original study by any chance?
It also doesn't explore the mental health effects of repeated exposure to large doses of hallucinogens on people, which we still don't have research on because of how demonized hallucinogens are in most countries doing research on drugs.
Also, I don't think you'll get that past an ethics board...
There’s that “therapist” at a mental health facility that would give ULTRA MACRODOSES of LSD to his patients, put them in a completely white room, strip them naked, chain them together, and play sad and horrifying things to them for DAYS in a row, and the only food they got was a nutrient slop they had to suck out of the wall… that didn’t go well.
Bro, share a link if you can, PLEASE.
This sounds like Donald Ewen Cameron's work, but somehow even more fucked up than what I've heard about re: him to date. I absolutely need to know more.
what about testing the ld50 on humans?
LSD stays winning
Psychedelics just chilling at the bottom. I'm not even sure there's a proper LD50 for these as there are no recorded deaths where overdose was the cause. It's so funny yet sad that these are super illegal while booze and tobacco are perfectly legal.
And the CIA tried SUPER HARD to find it too
Love Sex Dreams
Damn so when I say something like "in my opinion a joint is exactly the same as a cup of coffee" I'm wrong... because coffee is more likely to kill you than a joint
It doesn't say that. The X axis is basically the inverse of how many times a "usefull dose" you need to take before you die. Or you can see it as "overdose potential".
It's basically impossible to overdose on cannabis, but really easy to overdose on heroin. Coffee is kinda weird, it's at 0.01, meaning you need 100 times the effective dose to die.
That's basically 100-300 cups of coffee, so if you're drinking just coffee you're going to kill yourself from just drinking the water in the coffee way before the caffeine in the coffee gets dangerous.
He's right, we should legalize it. We've lost the war on drugs. Fully legalized cocaine would be dirt cheap and addicts with access to a safe, affordable supply could lead relatively normal, stable lives. The money earned in the drug trade would be taxable instead of supporting criminal or extremist groups, both at home and abroad.
While I can admit drugs aren't "good" per se but I do think most* should be legalized. We should have harm reduction classes that can teach people how to use responsibly. And have clinics where addicts can go to try and get clean and can provide whatever drug they're addicted to in a safe environment. Also tax revenue.
But that would require empathy and an honest look at how other countries handle drugs much better than the U.S.
South Park predicted it yet again
When its german big pharma its ok, when its made by south americans its not ok.
I don't know if this is true today, but it was definitely true at first. But because of cocaine prohibition, the powder became incrisingly purer and the plant increasingly stronger. Prohibition made cocaine a more dangerous substance to consume.
Legalization and regulation could bring standardization to the cultivation and processing of this plant. But as far as I know that has not happened with weed, so it is unlikely.
Anecdotally, cocaine seems to make its users into the worst versions of themselves. Alcohol can have negative effects (the “mean drunk”, drinking as disinhibition for impulsive antisocial behaviour, etc.) though the average drinker is generally not regarded as negatively as the average cokehead. I wonder how much of this is due to the substances’ intrinsic properties and how much due to cultural expectations.
I suspect a large part has to do with a selection bias. The people most likely to turn into a bad cokehead are also the people with the most access to it. Most people will never come into contact with cocaine, but they will come into contact with alcohol and likely consume it. The average person is more likely to become an alcoholic, while only certain segments are likely to even have the potential to become a coke addict and I'd bet on those segments being more likely to be harmful.
Yeah. The stereotype of the cokehead is the asshole trader who works at Goldman Sachs. Rookie numbers and all that…
Cocaine either makes me crazy. Aka I think it was cut with something. Or does absolutely nothing to me. Aka this is the pure stuff. The better the cocaine, according to my friends reviews versus mine, the less I feel any "effects". So that was the start of internal alarm bells about ADHD 😂(very much so diagnosed and medicated now lol). Just better focus but a bit moreso than my current meds, as a rough guess it's been over 10 years.
But I never saw them become the worst versions of themeslves.
Unless. They drank at the same time as consuming.
Is cocaine legal in Colombia?
According to wikipedia, you can own up to a gram (1 or 2 doses, but like half a dose if you're the kind of person who doesn't need the internet to know that), and you can gift it and make your own. But you can't sell it...
Jeeeez. A gram of pure stuff is enough to get both my partner and I zooted for like three nights straight.