this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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Hello comrades. In the interest of upholding our code of conduct - specifically, rule 1 (providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all) - we felt it appropriate to make a statement regarding the lionization of Luigi Mangione, the alleged United Healthcare CEO shooter, also known as "The Adjuster."

In the day or so since the alleged shooter's identity became known to the public, the whole world has had the chance to dig though his personal social media accounts and attempt to decipher his political ideology and motives. What we have learned may shock you. He is not one of us. He is a "typical" American with largely incoherent, and in many cases reactionary politics. For the most part, what is remarkable about the man himself is that he chose to take out his anger on a genuine enemy of the proletariat, instead of an elementary school.

This is a situation where the art must be separated from the artist. We do not condemn the attack, but as a role model, Luigi Mangione falls short. We do not expect perfection from revolutionary figures either, but we expect a modicum of revolutionary discipline. We expect them not simply to identify an unpopular element of society hitler-detector , but to clearly illuminate the causes of oppression and the means by which they are overcome. When we canonize revolutionary figures, we are holding them up as an example to be followed.

This is where things come back to rule 1. Mangione has a long social media history bearing a spectrum of reactionary viewpoints, and interacting positively with many powerful reactionary figures. While some commenters have referred to this as "nothing malicious," by lionizing this man we effectively deem this behavior acceptable, or at the very least, safe to ignore. This is the type of tailism which opens the door to making a space unsafe for marginalized people.

We're going to be more strict on moderating posts which do little more than lionize the shooter. There is plenty to be said about the unfolding events, the remarkably positive public reaction, how public reactions to "propaganda of the deed" may have changed since the historical epoch of its conception (and how the strategic hazards might not have), and many other aspects of the news without canonizing this man specifically. We can still dance on the graves of our enemies and celebrate their rediscovered fear and vulnerability without the vulgar revisionism needed to pretend this man is some sort of example of Marxist or Anarchist practice.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well I'm glad I got most of it out of my system then.

That said, my mom's surgery was delayed by a month by United Healthcare shenanigans and time will tell how much damage that may have caused. Separating the art from the artist will be difficult here.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 week ago (15 children)

not reading all that

are we getting luigi emojis or not, thats all i need to know

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 week ago (2 children)

How does this apply to meme-tier posts (Luigi’s Mansion, paulie-point anti-italian-discrimination stuff)?

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 week ago

Good post. Fully agree.

I think a big part of the issue is that people are struggling to reconcile the dude they made up in their heads(The Adjuster) and love, and the dude who actually exists(Luigi's Mansion) who isn't particularly lovable. I think it'll fade over time as those two distinct things get smooshed together.

Until then, it should be strongly discouraged to lionize him like people have been.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 week ago (2 children)

we can treat him like we do a-guy

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (18 children)

Before you get mad at this mod post, consider the difference between “critical support” and “lionization.”

Which term is used in the post?

Should we lionize a transphobic white guy living in the imperial core, in 2024, on this trans-inclusive website? No, because people here shouldn’t have to wonder, “does this commenter know about the transphobia and just not care?” There shouldn’t be that ambiguity.

Luigi had the right motives, the assassination itself was not a reactionary act. But the man is a transphobe, or he was one recently, and that’s not a trivial issue, we shouldn’t treat it as a trivial issue. He’s not Hamas, he’s not Stalin, he’s a well-off white American man in 2024.

Yeah, you can and should celebrate that a CEO got dropped, but don’t make Luigi your hero. Don’t lionize this guy.

That seems like a perfectly reasonable mod stance to me.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 week ago (4 children)

The fact that if the guy had been a leftist this whole debate would vanish is all one needs to know if this is actually a debate worth BANNING PEOPLE OVER, shove the hammer up your asses you're actively making the site worse far more than whatever lionizing is happening

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 week ago (4 children)

grimly funniest part of all this is all the yankees showing their whole asses and betraying how feeble and vulgar their understanding of actual Marxist principles are. yeah, Luigi is just like Hamas dude. lenin-dont-laugh

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

There's another post outside this one that compares him to Willem van Spronsen, an actual anarchist, who as part of his attack laid out the clear anarchist principles that lead him to firebomb the ICE Detention center in Tacoma in 2019. Literal brainworms.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Serious question: Is discussing the concept of jury nullification, or even saying that the jury should be nullified in his case allowed?

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 week ago (3 children)

ok i have a chart that might help us figure all this out

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 week ago (16 children)

Good post. While we are at it, we should ban lionizing Stalin for his reactionary viewpoints next.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Luigi is just like Stalin. very insightful!

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 week ago

511 comments

what-the-hell

Death to America

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

From the jump I was hoping in the back of my mind this guy wouldn't get caught for no other reason than he's a white, probably cishet, American man with incoherent politics, and for that reason his views outside of CEO killing were never going to be something we'd condone.

I called him our guy while he was still anonymous because he hadn't been caught yet and honestly was looking like he wasn't going to be. In that situation claiming him was the best course of action for the left, but now with his capture he's a real person and not a folk hero. And that's his fucking fault too, because he clearly decided to get caught to cash in on the fame and clout of being the CEO killer.

He did one good thing, it'll be based if it inspires others to realize we are ruled by parasites and killing them is just self defense, but he's not a communist and still likely has some despicable things to say about other marginalized groups and we can't just ignore that. This is why we say we critically support him offing the CEO and teaching the public that these parasites aren't immortal, not full support for him personally as some type of comrade.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Fascists also hate big bankers would we praise a nazi for shooting a bank CEO?

I wouldn't, even if I'd laugh at pictures of the dead CEO as a boo from Mario.

The people who can't see why this is an issue come off as people who want this website to be just for them and not a space for all people to feel safe.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

good post, thanks. i've seen some serious comments about the guy which are just flat out un-Marxist... i get its been an exciting week or so but people need to think a little more before they post.

edit to expand because this is a good a place as any i guess: i have seen many users going out of their way to downplay, dismiss, occlude, and trivialise Luigi's right-wing views. i am on board with the whole event being a good potential topic of agitation, as clearly it has shown up a lot of contradictions of our time. however, this has to go hand in hand with acknowledgement and rigorous critique of his (let's call a spade a spade) wildly bigoted opinions, and exploration of why people end up believing those things. to see people totally, intentionally neglect that aspect in favour of downplaying his opinions makes me extremely uncomfortable as a queer user of the site! it's giving class reductionist brocialism in some cases. i have been reporting those comments/posts as i see them and i am super grateful that the mods are on top of this fidel-salute

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago (22 children)

it seems to me that there is a gulf between mods and many users regarding the expected level of political education necessary to participate on Hexbear.

the questions I answered to make an account gave me no indication that I would need to understand words like "tailism," which I came across for the first time here a few weeks ago.

feel free to excoriate me for being ignorant and a fake leftist, I guess 🤷 if I have to have the free time and mental capacity to engage meaningfully with theory to be a real leftist, then that's sad news for me but probably better for me (and you!) to learn sooner than later.

does it make me a bad comrade? probably 😞 genuinely, I am sorry. if it's any consolation to you, I used to be a voracious reader but haven't read anything for pleasure in a couple of years. I haven't put more than a couple hours here and there into self-improvement or entertainment because my extra hours and extra spoons very rarely line up. staying alive is sometimes difficult.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 week ago (59 children)

I’m not gonna lie, this feels incredibly deft to me. Please call me out if I’m wrong but he’s not a nazi. He seems to have fairly average 20 year old white Yale graduate politics and all the baggage that comes with that. Of course he’s not a principal end communist and of course he has reactionary takes because he’s a white guy from middle America. Why shouldn’t we critically support him? These are the fucking things that they divide us over.

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