chat

There are political parties currently in existence in the states other than D&R. If Bernie were considering building a movement quickly he'd probably be talking to or about one, rather than nebulously asking these questions.

While a politician speaking like Bernie used to be refreshing to me, his words now feel stale. He has been a statesman since before Christ, therefore I am unimpressed at broad and simple questions like:

How do we deal with citizens united?

Oh indeed, this is a question! I expect an idea. I expect a plan. I expect a lot i guess, but i don't expect he's serious. He's just throwing shit at the wall.

Finally this guy here.

Should we be supporting Independent candidates who are prepared to take on both parties?

Gigantic "duh" aside, while it's a list of grievances, imma still invoke Betteridge's law of headlines here. If he's asking? Then he doesn't know. If he doesn't know? He aint leading shit.

I canvassed for him so the bitterness colors this final salt-stained opinion: if i was somehow convinced he wasn't just taking up and dissipating all the leftist energy again? I no longer believe the man's got what it takes.

He has to promise that there will be no cooperation with the New Republicans and that he would not do a rug pull at some point and suddenly asks the delegates to fall in line/vote for/with the New Republicans.

Otherwise there is no point because we already know of this past behavior of his.

His support of Biden and Israel has destroyed most of the good will I had towards him. Maybe he sees his legacy and doesn't want to die being a lackey of the Empire but IDK I could be giving him more credit than he deserves. I know a lot of us, myself included, wouldn't be here without him.

If this rhetoric ends in him throwing his support behind PSL or even the Greens, then awesome.

The democratic party is 100% captured by bourgeois interests. The political battlefield is sort of drawn with these two parties that are both completely bourgeois but there are new issues arising all the time with events. Which ever one of these parties identifies a new issue will propose a solution from a fundamentally bourgeois worldview and they may not be particularly interested in carrying these proposals out if they are not fundamentally bourgeois concerns. The first actor of the two parties may propose basically the same solution, and the second one may tinker with it, but they operate on the same framework. As long as issues are defined by these parties and their various propaganda networks, bourgeois concerns will always be considered a higher priority than issues that affect normal proletarian human beings and solutions will be the ones that benefit bourgeois interests. And the propaganda channels have turned the average american into an open nazi with respect to the border and Gaza.

For example, if there is a liquidity crisis in the banking sector, it will be dealt with immediately. But why is a liquidity crisis in the banking sector a more urgent problem than the 34 million Americans dealing with food insecurity? Liquidity crises can cause serious economic dysfunction but we already have serious economic dysfunction when 34 million people are food insecure in the presence of such abundance.

A socialist movement needs to do a better job discovering the real issues that real people face and propose and agitate solutions to these problems that strengthen proletarian class power before the bourgeois media and parties can poison the well with their stupid bullshit. As long as we allow our political discourse to be carried out in the existing framework of bourgeois parties and bourgeois propaganda networks we cannot possibly win. But if we are surfacing these problems quickly, it will undermine the legitimacy of a media that doesn't cover anything and political parties that do not deal with them.

fuck that and fuck him. he is a zionist and should burn with the rest of them

give me back the money you gave to joe fucking biden

Death to America

i can't comment much on the goal or whatever, but the whiplash many dems are experiencing--and the absolute failure of the party leadership to do anything but scold / have disingenuous takes about what it means--has left a vacuum for a lot of vaguely, passively center-left people emotionally invested in national politics who believed the dems were their best and only choice.

the productive takes i have heard bouncing around my own orgs/community are that "we must figure our own problems out, because no help is coming." they are productive in the sense that it is a call to action in the here and now, not wasting effort on any of the symbolic BS around national protests or other dem pageantry. to identify material problems and work to do something about them.

washington is going to be a shitshow. same as it ever was, but the mask will be off and that's going to traumatize people who still want to believe in at least some of our national institutions. this seems like an attempt to steer those people into some project. i assume what it does will be dictated by how many buy in and to what degree. i won't pretend to have hope for it, but i'm not going to piss all over it just yet for not openly aligning itself to the immortal science of maoist third worldism. i'm saving my piss for the reactionaries and the revanchist crusaders.

How do we...[buncha good stuff]

Listen old man, if you don't understand the answer is revolution after being in congress as long as you have, you have no answer.

heres how bernie can still win

disgraceful coward still can't call it a genocide

I think he was pretty funny on that ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’ show

about 10 years too late. go to bed grandpa

If the last five years have shown anything, it's that Bernie Sanders is a true believer in the Democratic Party brand, he's categorically not a radical or someone who's comfortable rocking the boat and you have to be both of those things if you want to get serious about third parties. He has his little niche inside the party and he's happy with it, well he was until the party and his "friend" Genocide Joe started to fall apart

Either way he's extremely comfortable in DC and no amount of temper tantrum press releases is gonna get people to think he's the real deal again, he blew his shot, and he squandered the attention the American people gave him, he made his bed long ago

there are five left wing political parties

we should create a single unified left wing political party for everyone to rally around

there are six left wing political parties

edit: I'm pessimistic but anything is better than just continuing to do what he's been doing for the past four years, so yeah I hope he does

Harsher language than what he has previously said about Dems, even that statement he put out after Kamala's loss. I think it's unlikely he plans to start an actual party, though. This reads more like he will go back to being more independent, at best he joins the Greens (which would be better than starting his own party, I trust the Greens' judgement a lot better than Bernie's at this point).

Electoralism is a dead end at the national level, regardless.

Sanders exemplifies the term 'social fascist'. I don't trust him with power and I don't trust his zionist allies. If he forms a party, it's just the democrats.

I’m still getting emails from various dems because of barnie sandals.

I've been thinking there's a serious split in the Democratic Party between Zionists and anti-genocide progressives. Those Senators that joined calls for an arms embargo and the House Reps that refused to watch Netanyahu speak could split and form a Party. It'd work!

A lot of progressives would rally around Bernie and him joining a third party would mean he would have to cave in less with the Democrats. I wish this happened.

Bark bark bark goes the imperial sheepdog

I don’t think it’s going to be an actual party. I think this is partly a pressure campaign to get the DNC to change, and partly he (and others) are sending out feelers to see how much of the movement is still there/can be re-established for a non-party movement. A mix between a ground-up operation to find and hold candidates, collaborate various orgs, influencing politics within DNC etc.

Maybe I’m wrong though.

He could have pulled off a 3rd party run in 2016 and he would have won. Probably the same thing in 2020.

He missed his chance, twice. And if he is considering making a third party NOW, I gotta say that shows very poor political instincts.

That said, if he does start a new party, all the power to him, and I hope that whomever joins this new party won’t be afraid to call what’s happening in Gaza a genocide.