chapotraphouse

Lose what?

Thanks to Trump, they have exactly one opportunity to court the Reaganites and the Cheneys (and soon the Bushes). The establishment Republicans. This is what the Democrats have been dreaming for decades, and Trump pissing off all these factions have made it possible for the Democrats to seize upon this moment.

Might they be losing voters, yes, but who cares? The donor class is the only class that matters.

Because of Citizens United, prioritizing the donor class means endless funding for future campaigns, while the Republican Party is being relegated to a MAGA culture war party that will soon succumb to its own fracture from internal divisions.

The people in the campaign staff and WH staff are all so far removed from normal people and normal competency that this is where we are. This is also, for example, why the White House keeps asking China to do stuff that doesn't benefit China, and it's why they're staggered every time China says no.

They don't care about winning, they care about donors

Until recently I would've said this is ridiculous to the point of hyperbole

Then I watched her try to invoke Oct. 7th to justify genocide when directly asked about losing Arab and Muslim support over it

Then I saw she sent Ritchie Torres to stump in Michigan

If it's not on purpose it's some of the worst self-sabotage I've ever seen

I think that they would like to win, but don't know what is broadly popular and are constrained by the donors and by wanting to turn the Dem party into the 2006-era GW Bush Republican party.

Obviously you can do all that and still run a good campaign by just lying about it, like Obama for example. A Dem party with better PR would still adopt all the Liz/Dick Cheney policy positions, but wouldn't constantly talk about how much they love them.

Also, there are a bunch of consultants who will get paid either way, those people probably don't care about winning at all.

I don't think they want to lose, as much as they only want to win one way, through a centrist/neoliberal consensus without a single concession to left/social democracy/populism etc, and if they lose the voters failed them, not the other way around.

Believe a lot of Biden's campaign team is working for KKKamala now, gotta assume it's the same people who thought putting Biden on live TV at 9pm was a good idea.

Yes. There is literally nothing democrats love more than losing elections to easily beatable Republicans.

They aren't expected to actually do anything so they can keep claiming to be super progressive and they can say "told you so" and punch left to blame progressives.

The opposition party needs to be full of useful idiots, who will do whatever they're told no matter what it costs their credibility. It's an entire party of clueless.

Its jaw dropping and I've been confused also but I THINK in my limited layman's opinion they WANT to win...but only if it can be on their specific terms.

Like with Israel...I think they may be in a bit of a quagmire. I think they are aware the genocide is broadly unpopular but the problem is that they also fundamentally agree with the zionist agenda and can't decouple themselves from it. Its a bit shocking how they won't even bother to lie about it...but I think they've gamed it out and decided that politically its actually more dangerous/volatile to risk completely ceding that ground to the republicans.

With the Cheney's....I don't know...I'd be curious what polls show because just anecdotally I know my grandparents and a lot of their Reagan era republican friends who switched during the Obama years fucking love her.

Speculation: they may be primarily motivated to focus exclusively on that voting bloc because they don't actually expect the democrats to do anything different or material???

I don’t know how I can simultaneously want them to lose and also be mad that they are fucking trying to eat it this badly and in this particular way. Not looking forward to Like two more weeks of intense loathing. The loathing will continue after as well but holy shit this campaign sucks.

I don't think so. They are technocratic institutionalists through and through, and Trump is a threat to the stability of these institutions. This is what it looks like when the Democrats are TRYING to win. They just have absolutely run out of gas.

I think what they want is a very specific outcome, and they would prefer to be the ones that bring it into existence, but they’re also ok with the other party doing it as long as the outcome is achieved. They want to win, but they’re ok with losing if it means the larger project remains on the rails.

It could easily just be incompetence. Kamala bombed out of the 2020 primaries before they even began despite being the media darling who was hyped up as the front-runner, then was handed the nomination this cycle through shennaniganry. She has pretty terrible political instincts, if we wanted to be extremely generous we could say she's "unproven." It would not be at all surprising if she bombs out, they shoulda had a primary so they could find someone who at least knows what they're doing.

‘what happened on October 7th is so much worse than the genocide in Gaza’

I missed that one, when did that happen?

No! It's no like bernie is the candidate, they want to win, they want to win super heard, if you're thinking they don't want to win because they'd have to move to the left to do so that just means they're not willing to do that to win

All they have to do is lie! Say they'll stop and then hide it in the black budget. Or hell just say "Soz the parlimentarian forced us to ramp it up 300% actually"

I'm pretty certain it's not that they want to lose, but that they think they've already won. Kamala appeals to everyone Joe does, and she's a black woman! In their eyes, they've hit the candidate jackpot, locking in the progressive vote without having to change course and introduce progressive policies.

It's Hillary all over again.

Why would a lifestyle brand (TM) co -op want to run a government?

Yes. Maybe they don't think so, but I genuinely believe the Dems don't want to win because their entire schtick is to make a bunch of money whilst the unpopulars do their dirty work

I thought Trump was playing the heel so dems could win since they're both on the same MiC-fed-capital side anyway but it could be the other way around

God damn they really seem like it don't they.