World News

This right here.. The fact that Xpeng can produce and sell the MONA for $17k should be a wakeup call to US companies. Even just a simple EV without all the bells would be amazing.. We don't want perfect we just want drivable. Legacy needs to focus on overall efficiency in addition so they can squeeze the most range out of smaller battery packs.

Yeah anytime the US "subsidizes" something in the local auto market, GM alone eats it up in 5 seconds and pretends they did something with it. Sometimes Ford and Chrysler also get a share.

I'm pretty sure they already recently gave funding to GM for EVs which will go absolutely nowhere because all their major sales are from regular gasoline cars.

I was even hopeful of Ford's hybrid Fusion, but they killed that one too because money.

If they really want to make some serious competition, they should break up the oligopoly of car OEMs. But they never did and never will.

This exact scenario already played out with Japanese OEMs decades ago. They brought a superior product to the market, and instead of competing, they just lobbied congress to make a crap ton of stupid import laws to prevent Japanese cars from taking the market.

Then they had a weird era of those hybrid car brands where the big 3 made partnerships with Nissan, Toyota, etc for tech sharing because they couldn't even properly R&D for crap.

Then Nissan, Toyota, Honda, and Subaru opened plants inside the USA to bypass the import stuff, and here we are today.

The only difference this time is instead of what was generally perceived as an economic ally, the new kid on the block is the next enemy after Russia. And tbh not even a major threat type of enemy.

It’s not even the heavy subsidising, China makes the US look like it has strong employee rights and environmental regulations.

I would say that all tracks but american car companies are refusing to even attempt to make an affordable electric vehicle, so how can you say its just a gap in research that subsidies would fix.

Subsidies would be drained the same way the profits were, why wouldnt they. American car companies refuse to listen to demand, and this is what they get for it.

One could argue that China's governmental subsidizing of the industry just shows the commitment they have to be a leader and dominant player in the future of transportation worldwide.

Does the American government have such aspirations? Does the American Auto industry have the vision and goal to adapt to a disrupted market?

In my opinion the arguments surrounding this topic come down to which country is going to work harder to play a leading role in the future.

China is making their bet, and the quality of Chinese EVs is increasing extremely rapidly. If they can so easily dominate the American Auto Market that tells us that the Americans have been sleeping at the wheel and need to make some tough choices about spending. We can curtail the onslaught through duties and various taxes and regulations but not indefinitely.

So you're saying that buying one means that the American working class is extracting value from the Chinese government? Sounds great to me.

The vast majority of those subsidies (rebates, sales tax exemption, government procurement of EVs) you linked don't seem like they would apply to exported vehicles. This suggests exports would indeed be very price competitive, wouldn't it?

by the time the Chinese government stopped subsidies, there wouldn’t be any competition left.

What? BMW EV surpassed Tesla sales in Europe for July. BMW, VW, AUDI, Skoda all have very attractive alternatives to Tesla, and Mercedes too, if you want higher quality and don't mind it's a bit more expensive.
So how do you figure there is no competition without China?
From Korea we Have Hyundai and KIA, and from USA there is Rivian and Ford.
Arguably the American competition is the weakest, but still it seems to me there is lots of competition, even without including Chinese cars.

Are bailouts subsidies?

Exactly this. And don't forget that only countries with big car manufacturers might consider imposing tariffs on them, to preserve their local brands. There are plenty of big markets who don't and most likely won't impose any tariffs on them.

My stance on Chinese cars is to have no tariffs on models that are $25kMSRP or less this disincentives them from overly marking them up.

Or they'll just work out a way to ban the ones they think are too cheap from charging networks

And those companies got rid of all the social incentives; no long-term jobs, pensions are gone, etc. They carved out every possible benefit to the community and monetised every scrap of consumer data from their customers.

Let them burn.

Because apparently it's a problem only when a Chinese company does it. There are no problems at all when it's GM, Toyota or Ford moving factories from the USA to Mexico for cost cutting reasons

don’t phone home info to China or BYD

You can guarantee they will. If we can somehow prevent that, I'm game. In fact, I'd rather all car manufacturers cut the data vacuum crap, and every other industry for that matter.

Outside of Tesla, the EV market in the US is already comprised of mostly foreign brands. These concerns aren't about protecting the few American automakers (GM, Ford, Tesla) left, it's about protecting the market for everyone, protecting all those union jobs, and preventing a bunch of companies going out of business because they can't compete against unsustainable Chinese subsidies.

Keep them China trucks out!!! Gimme my ‘Merica truck!

—-

I would be more than happy to drive a $15000 electric car.