this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 130 points 5 months ago (4 children)

for those who haven't read the woman's FB post, here is a clip:

"..were attacked on Saturday night by a group of 7-10+ middle eastern men, believed to be from Syria, aged 18-25"

Canada has a lot of issues at this moment, stemming in part from increased immigration in the last 3 years (causing housing issues, etc). This sort of event, "brown people beating up white women" could be a dangerous racial catalyst.

I hope this gets dealt with as a single incident, but given current affairs, I am not optimistic.

[–] [email protected] 82 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Immigration is such a fucked up issue almost everywhere. You've got the right blaming everything on brown people and the left claiming all immigrants are just peace loving pacifists looking for a better life.

As with most issues the truth is in the middle and any immigration policy should absolutely demand that any immigrant coming into a country assimilate and fully support our values of equality for all.

You cannot tell me you support equality for all when your religion makes your wife walk 5 steps behind you in a beekeeper suit at 30c weather while you get to strut around in shorts and flip-flops.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 5 months ago (1 children)

As with most issues the truth is in the middle and any immigration policy should absolutely demand that any immigrant coming into a country assimilate and fully support our values of equality for all.

First generation migrants tend to be, in most receiving countries, less likely to commit crime than native-born population.

http://www.antoniocasella.eu/nume/Bersani_2012.pdf

They found that immigrant men and women were less criminally active than native-born men and women in regard to self-reported crime, being stopped by the police, being charged with a crime, and having contact with a criminal justice agency. This pattern of lower levels of criminal activity among immigrants compared to the native-born held in models controlling for key background characteristics including a variety of educational, employment, and family history measures.

The problem comes with latter generations, if the receiving country isn't doing an adequate job at integrating them. If the parents work really long hours, aren't capable of spending much time with their kids, have trouble to pay kindergarten and have trouble teaching their kids the local language, if the kids are victimized by racist bullying at school, have less means to do well academically and land a good job, and are generally otherized by society, they're at a larger risk getting alienated and engaging in antisocial behavior and even crime.

So, if you don't want migration to be a problem, invest in public schooling (including kindergarten), offer classes teaching the local language to adults, empower unions, protect labor, and fight racism.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

As with most issues the truth is in the middle and any immigration policy should absolutely demand that any immigrant coming into a country assimilate and fully support our values of equality for all.

America is hardly a country of "equality for all" sadly

Edit: This was literally 4 posts down

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago (4 children)

This happened in Canada, what does the usa have to do with this? This same thing is playing out over in the EU as well, and everyone here is wondering how the right is gaining political growth...this is why. People inherently do not want groups that come over and violently force their beliefs on the population.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

People inherently do not want groups that come over and violently force their beliefs on the population.

Agreed.

To me, though, there's a bigger problem with people already here who are violently forcing their beliefs o to others.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Why are they believed to be from Syria?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Police said one man stayed and made a statement, in the US at least this means identifying yourself, so they have a likely reliable way to identify the men involved

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

I hope this gets dealt with as a single incident, but given current affairs, I am not optimistic.

Genuine question. Is it a single incident though?

There have been a lot of reports of issues with people coming to western countries and not holding the same standards of respect for women.

I think it should be dealt with as a single issue iff it is a single issue. If it isn't a single issue why should it be treated as such?

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Violent people should be brought to justice, this is unacceptable.

There are many Muslim or Islamic immigrants who live in Western countries just fine, what happened here? Many Muslim and Islamic immigrants are LGBT+.

The root cause of the issue in this incident should be examined, and if all else fails violent immigrants should be deported.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I work with middle eastern guys who are like this, they hide this side of themselves when I'm around (white guy) but it comes out when my female coworkers are alone. It's common enough that I've heard about it from multiple people. But when I'm around they're great and I consider them good work friends.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (2 children)

It's hard facing this as a lefty. I met a Muslim European colleague at an all hands in tel aviv during pride a few years ago. Went for super late night constitutional with a few other internationals including fellow Americans and the whole city was alive and really queer. In depth conversation with this otherwise really nice guy about how he would minimum believe mental illness, maybe disown, his daughters for being gay or trans. I understood it's religion like anti abortion and I'll never persuade him and didn't argue, just shared perspectives and asked questions.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

It's not hard at all to face this as a leftist. You can acknowledge that homophobia and sexism are deeply rooted in Islamic religions while also recognizing that not every adherent is guilty of either. Pretending something isn't true because it's not pretty doesn't benefit anyone except those who would utilize the blind eye to continue to do harm to society.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (3 children)

The root cause is Islamic conservatism.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Root cause is religion which devalues this life for a hypothetical next one

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Is it weird that I’m impressed by how minor their injuries are?

A significantly broken nose can be life altering, especially if it’s too swollen to set right away, don’t get me wrong, but they both walked away.

If I was in a fight with multiple men and I ended up on the ground, I don’t think I’m walking away. I say that as a 178cm woman who’s stronger than most.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 5 months ago (27 children)

I dunno. I read it after seeing your comment and it suprised by your assessment. Black eyes take forever to heal. They have to see that every day in the mirror for weeks while also trying to deal with the trauma of the attack.

I think it's great they walked away, but then again, doesn't seem like the kind of situation where it's a group of people looking to maim or kill

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago

I got punched in the face at 24yr, and it never fully recovered. My eye is ok, but any time there's the slightest bit of facial swelling - tired, allergies, etc. the cheek under that eye pouches up and droops markedly.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago

I’m absolutely not minimizing their injuries, but I would expect myself to die in that situation. They handled themselves much better in the fight than I think I would.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (2 children)

They're Canadian.

Broken nose, broken teeth and black eyes? This was a normal day at whale shit hockey.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 5 months ago (13 children)

atheism is the answer. until we as a whole reject religion, these incidents will be recurring.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I know homophobes that are atheists. while religion being gone would decrease it, do not expect it to be gone just because of that. People will always have issues with people different than they are.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (21 children)

yes, but with religion out of the way, we can implement better education to reduce 'otherism' bias. i am convinced that the only obstacles stopping us from being better humans are all rooted in BS fairy tales.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (5 children)

While true they won't have a belief system that backs it up, it won't have the power behind it.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Doesn't work. USSR murdered and prisoned both religious people and gay people alike. The answer is not being a fucking cockwomble, which is admittedly more easily done if you're an atheist, but by no means is a guarantee.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (25 children)

Not necessarily. Plenty of chill religious people and unchill atheists. Russian homophobia, for instance, is generally secular.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (8 children)

Homophobia and Atheism aren't mutually exclusive to one another, hell I know plenty of Atheist Transphobes.. some of whom used to be gay allies until they were radicalized by the Alt Right.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 5 months ago

“A group of men walking on the other direction made a comment to me. My girlfriend, Tori, said ‘hey that’s my girlfriend,'" MacLean told CTVNews. “They continued walking and Tori followed them to basically say: ‘That is not OK’.”

Don't ever do this, no matter who you are.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (12 children)

I'd encourage LGBTQ folk to relocate to western and northern Europe. It ain't perfect, but you're very unlikely to get the shit kicked out of you.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

👁️4️⃣👁️

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

have books become too heavy for men?

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