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Justice Department sues to break up Live Nation, parent of Ticketmaster (www.cnbc.com)

submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 107 points 7 months ago (3 children)

"We allege that Live Nation relies on unlawful, anticompetitive conduct to exercise its monopolistic control over the live events industry in the United States at the cost of fans, artists, smaller promoters, and venue operators," said Attorney General Merrick Garland in a statement. "The result is that fans pay more in fees, artists have fewer opportunities to play concerts, smaller promoters get squeezed out, and venues have fewer real choices for ticketing services. It is time to break up Live Nation-Ticketmaster."

Oh look, they finally discovered the thing anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together knew 20 years ago.

Stop fucking approving corporate mergers and acquisitions you utter fucking dumbasses.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It didn't matter until a billionaire was pissed and her millions of fans were also pissed.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If it means change, I'll take it!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

No hate here, just noting why it is finally changed. I'm largely indifferent to Swift except to say she's talented.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

This is not the result of a prolonged investigation. It's the result of shifting precedent from a neoliberal, Chicago School, interpretation to a more "new deal" era interpretation of monopoly laws. For the last 30 years, monopolies could only be broken up if the corporation bought other companies "with the intention of of forming a "monopoly." We literally had to get rid of all the followers of the Chicago School from the government and replace them with people that aren't as friendly to corporations.

Basically, think of companies forming monopolies as drunk driving. If a court of law were to determine drunk driving manslaughter cases like they've been determining monopoly cases, you'd have to prove that the drunk driver left his house with the intention of killing someone inna drunk driving accident. So they'd always be able to say, "well I didn't leave the house thinking I'd kill someone!" And get away of it. That's how companies and the judicial system have been treating monopoly laws.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

For the last 30 years, monopolies could only be broken up if the corporation bought other companies "without the intention of of forming a “monopoly.”

With the intention of forming a monopoly?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Fixed, thanks.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

It is time to break up Live Nation-Ticketmaster.

The best time to do this was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I hope one day we can go back to buying from the box office without fees.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I just had to pay $17 to buy 2 tickets to a show at a random small venue for my kid.

These service fees are out of control.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago

I had to pay sales tax to purchase two tickets from a Ticketmaster subsidiary in a state where we have no sales tax. I even went through the hassle of contacting them and they just blew me off with "it's to cover state and local taxes" which are nonexistant in reality.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Meanwhile the cost of delivering tickets has never been lower.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

I hope you made sure to tip them at least 20% for the convenience 🙃

[–] [email protected] 61 points 7 months ago

I wish more musicians had joined Pearl Jam back in the day, but instead they were left to stand up for fans alone. And now Ticketmaster has only gotten bigger/worse since. 😩

[–] [email protected] 60 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I cannot believe it required Taylor Swift fans getting screwed over for this to finally be looked at, but it's about goddamn time!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Don't mess with the Swifties

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Back in the day, you would camp out or arrive early....stand in line...wait for the record store to open to buy tickets.

All tickets were same price No Internet meant 1st person in line had a real chance to get front row seats Tickets were 30.00 maybe....I paid 40 to see van Halen with Alice in Chains open.

Nowadays, seats are priced at a premium Venues add an upcharge for seats on top of Ticketmaster Fees are almost as much as a ticket Front row doesn't go to fans that camp out, they are sold at a huge markup. No more paper tickets means ticketmaster gets to double dip on fees for a resale...if they even allow resale of your ticket.

Fuck ticketmaster

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

No Internet meant 1st person in line had a real chance to get front row seats Tickets were 30.00 maybe…I paid 40 to see van Halen with Alice in Chains open

I get this probably wasn't your main intent, but no internet also meant that if you didn't live in a large-ish city with physical access to those tickets, you either took hours/days out of your life or were just SOL.

Internet ticket sales aren't really the problem, it's automated and sanctioned/coordinated scalping for resale. (To be fair, that is largely enabled by internet sales...) There's certainly no technical reason all tickets to a popular show couldn't be sold at the same price and/or to those who had virtually queued up. It's just those aspects that make a better fan experience are generally directly opposed to making the most money.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Swifties vs BTS fans, no one wins.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 7 months ago

Now do the banks and grocery stores and airlines and car companies and farming and...

[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Imagine having a golden goose like this and literally strangling it with your own greed.

If I was one of those people making outrageous amounts of money off this thing for decades, I would be screaming for the flesh to be stripped clean off the executives managing that business.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Live Nation said Thursday it doesn’t benefit from monopoly pricing, saying that Ticketmaster service charges “are no higher than elsewhere, and frequently lower.” The company noted its overall net profit margin is at the low end of S&P 500 companies.

How do they not make a killing? What are they spending their money on? I can't remember how many years ago it's been since I got a physical ticket besides the ones I had to pay them for to print myself.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (1 children)

No higher than elsewhere

Technically true since "elsewhere" no longer exists because they worked hard to ensure that was the case.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Lol exactly, hence the monopoly accusations. We're on to you Ticketmaster/LiveNation!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

John Oliver did a segment on it. He specifically answered that question if I remember correctly.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I do remember this episode. They go into it a bit at the 5 minute mark, but didn't get into many specifics.

It looks like Hollywood accounting to me still. If we look at the statements from Ticketmaster's site for answers, we get:

Who sets the ticket price? Artists, promoters, sports leagues, or teams decide how they want to sell their tickets on Ticketmaster. That includes setting the face value prices, determining how many tickets to sell, and when to put them on sale.

How much money does Ticketmaster make from a ticket? Ticketmaster doesn’t keep anything from the face value cost of a ticket. We take a portion of the fees added to the ticket. As a ticketing vendor selected by the venue, Ticketmaster’s portion covers the costs of the technology, people, and resources needed to provide a safe and secure ticket-buying experience. It also covers the equipment and support we provide venues with, helping them to manage their box office and seamlessly get everyone into the venue on event day.

What are service fees? Service fees are an essential cost of putting on a show. The venue sets the service fee rate card and keeps most of the service fees, sharing a portion with Ticketmaster, sports teams, leagues, promoters, and other parties who have a hand in making live events happen.

Can you tell me how many tickets have been sold for an event? For all inquiries on pricing and sales you must reach out to the event organizer directly.

And if we look at LiveNation:

As the world’s largest live entertainment company, Live Nation is the one-stop solution for all your event needs. From corporate events to private live concerts, to social gatherings, our event specialists provide seamless execution, including event planning, experiential marketing, state-of-the-art equipment, live entertainment and more.

And also:

With over 150 venues across North America, we offer unique event spaces, state-of-the-art production and branding capabilities, as well as an experienced staff ready to exceed your guests' expectations.

So while plenty of money is leaving Ticketmaster, a very large chunk of that is likely going right back into several of their other pockets.

The LWT piece also goes into how only a minority of tickets actually go to sale to the public, leaving the rest up for resale, which they also have the potential to get a slice of as well, and they have seemingly done nothing to combat resllers or bots.

So LiveNation I can understand having slimmer margins since they seem to be providing actual services and have overhead on their physical ownings and staff, but Ticketmaster itself still seems to mainly by an app and marketing department.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

My issue with ticketmaster is the shifting cost of a ticket. If you pre-order, you'll spend more than the "face value" of the ticket. And if you wait 2 weeks, and can still get tickets, it's half the face value. There is no face value if the value keeps shifting.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

As I recall, they have the venue tack on an extra service fee charged to the promoter. That fee is then split by some petcentage with Live Nation. It allows Ticketmaster to claim low margins on tickets, while basically collecting a bunch of money right up front, before any tickets are even priced.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

I do give them credit for running a creative scam this long while staying technically on the right side of the law, but I gave up on going to shows about 8 years ago now.

Between the crazy cost and dealing with rude fans at the shows, I just pass on going now.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago

Shut em down. They deserve jail, suffering, and eternal torment.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago

Seriously! We've been talking about this for 30 years, can we just get it done already?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

Can't wait to be able to afford one of those shows and still not go.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sickos: "Yes...YES"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

I have this permanently saved on my phone. Now you can too!

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Just go back to no online presales. You wanna go to a show? Line up. One ticket per person. Fuck you.

The whole industry is a joke.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That would really suck for people traveling to see a popular show. You wouldn't know if you can actually get in until you get there.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

They could do more shows at smaller venues in more towns. I dunno, I'm just mad and so tired of this shit.