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submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by Erika3sis@hexbear.net to c/languagelearning@hexbear.net

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7441367

I knew for a long time that there was an independent website called Wikipesija serving as an unofficial Toki Pona Wikipedia, but yeah, apparently as of November 26, 2025, Wikipesija has shut down as an independent website and now redirects to a brand new official edition of Wikipedia at tok.wikipedia.org.

It's kinda surreal to see an actual, honest to God Toki Pona Wikipedia. I think it's great that this move can improve the prestige and awareness of the Toki Pona language; at the same time this move serves to centralize Toki Pona content onto a website that we all know is very politically biased and in the pockets of "AI".

Reminder as always that ibis.wiki exists. It's giving me a "bad gateway" as I'm typing this but I'm assuming it'll fix itself by the time you're reading this.

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7329625

New Post: What happens when a majority group responds to systemic struggle with the word "too"? This post explores the idea of "derailing"—how universalising experiences can inadvertently silence the specific realities of immigrants in Germany.

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7211534

Wrote this series first of all to vent about it, but also to preserve a trace of what was said and how it was answered. End of the #HamidStory series: from classroom → publisher ("Textbooks aren’t sociological analyses") → school ("We’ll forward this" / "do it yourself") → Outcome: responsibility dissolved.

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kitty-birthday-sad

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7127371

New Post: After a discrimination complaint about a German coursebook hit a dead end with the school and publisher, I asked NGOs and academics for guidance — and got neither answers nor meaningful responses

#HamidsStory #GermanCourseBook #ImmigrationNarratives #Germany #Immigration

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7066766

New blog post: A concrete case from German language education: a textbook narrative, a complaint, and how a language school responded — appreciation without responsibility.

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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by Erika3sis@hexbear.net to c/languagelearning@hexbear.net

gebrokken — "broken", but only of language. Originally meant something along the lines of "barely holding itself together, falling apart" but is now used pretty much exclusively to refer to speaking "with a heavy accent and bad grammar". From German gebrochen 'broken'.

anbehetelse-ord — "words starting with an- or be- and/or ending in -het or -else". What's special about these affixes is that they come from Low German and Danish and are found in many loans from German, either directly from the Hansa or sometimes via Danish. Accordingly, anbehetelse-ord have historically been proscribed in the Nynorsk written standard, which was created to be "purely Norwegian", but have never been proscribed in the Bokmål written standard, which was created from Danish. This has resulted in a large body of words which are significantly or completely different between the two written standards.

And yeah, I just think it's cool that this word sticks four common affixes together to make a normal-sounding word that collectively refers to everything containing those affixes. It reminds me of the Japanese word 都道府県 todôfuken 'prefectures of Japan' (from the four suffixes at the ends of all prefecture names: most prefecture names end in -ken, two end in -fu, one ends in -dô, and one ends in -to).

bindestrek-norsk — "Norwegian with an ethnicity often written in hyphenated form". We do the exact same thing in English when we say things like "hyphenated American", but the vibes seem to be a bit different with bindestrek-norsk, and moreover bindestrek-norsk actually has a hyphen in it.

jussisk — "legalese". From jus 'study of law; jurisprudence' (in turn from Latin iūs 'law') + -isk (equivalent to -ish). But the bonus thing that makes jussisk cooler than English legalese is that jussisk is a pun on russisk 'Russian' — so it's a bit like saying "fluent Yapanese".

grinchete — "grinchy: (of an action) ruining Christmas (of a person) hating Christmas". This is obviously just the name of the Grinch with a Norwegian suffix that derives adjectives from nouns stuck on the end, but that's what's neat about it. I've been broadly opposed to Anglo loans in Norwegian, but not dogmatically so: whether I accept an Anglo loan depends a lot on the specific etymology and semantics and pragmatics and overall just how the word is incorporated into the Norwegian language. And grinchete I think works pretty well because it's a local suffix added onto a proper noun; it adapts the sound symbolism of the original form to work in the new language; and it has a specific enough meaning that having a word for it feels warranted. Now the spelling is irregular, granted, but at least grinchete doesn't have any marginal phonemes in it, so that's a plus, too. Not to mention how grinchete in Norwegian vs grinchy in English seem to actually have somewhat divergent meanings despite ostensibly just meaning "like the Grinch".

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/6956399

The second part of Hamid's story: Wrote to the publisher about Hamid's overly grateful story—got polite dodge. Found sloppy "Migrationshintergrund = Ausländeranteil", chased again. Same pattern: small promises, big skips.

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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by Erika3sis@hexbear.net to c/languagelearning@hexbear.net

※ Take my IPA with a grain of salt.

I was recently at my aunt's watching movies with her kids. My aunt was explaining that the movie in question was filmed in a particularly beautiful part of Norway, and one of the kids said that the picture could've been /ɛjæj/. My aunt and I were both confused by what the child had said: I thought, "Is there a place in Norway called Eyei? That's a weird name. And how would a kid know something so obscure?" for a moment, until the kid repeated and my aunt and I finally understood that the kid was saying the letters "AI" in English with a Norwegian accent. I said that I preferred to call generative machine learning technologies "KI" /koː.iː/ in Norwegian but also think that "AI" /ɑː.iː/ is fine, but that it becomes confusing if you read initialisms in English when you're speaking Norwegian. I also explained to the kids that I thought that it was a real filming location that had had the colors graded to make it look more beautiful than it actually was, but that this wasn't strictly the same as AI.

Later on, I wondered what the Norwegian name for computer-generated imagery was — I suspected it was probably just CGI, but I figured I should double check to make sure. So I snuck out my phone to look it up: evidently, you can either call CGI datagenererte bilder (calque, rarer) or, exactly as I suspected, CGI (loan, more common). But when I pronounced the letters in "CGI" as /seːgeː.iː/ my aunt got confused until I repeated again, and then she understood and said, "Oh! You mean /siːdʒɪjæj/.^[Whether she actually said /dʒ/ is hard to say: I didn't record her voice for spectral analysis or whatever, but NAOB considers /dʒ/ to be a marginal phoneme of Norwegian mainly used in loans from English, and that sounds close enough to how I remember her pronouncing it.]"

This led to a back and forth where she said, "Well, you don't pronounce ChatGPT as /tɕætgeːpeːteː/, do you? You say /tɕætdʒiːpɪtiː/." and I said, "Well, you don't pronounce USA and ADHD as /jʉː.ɛsɛj/ and /ɛjdiː.ɛjtʂdiː/, do you? You say /ʉː.ɛsɑː/ and /ɑːdəhoːdə/." and she said, "Fair point." — I could've also mentioned how LOL is generally pronounced /lul/ (NAOB also lists /lɔl/ as a variant pronunciation, though), then there's OK where I've heard both /oːkɛj/ and /uːkoː/, and Norwegian dictionaries list several other variant pronunciations ranging from fully native, to fully English complete with a marginal diphthong, to weirdo hybrid forms where you read the O in Norwegian but the K in English.


Really, I just generally have a pet peeve against loaned acronyms/initialisms from English (or loaned anything from English — initialisms just stand out among the loans because they're ostensibly "supposed to" stand for something meaningful). But I feel my pet peeve particularly keenly when we're evidently at a point now where 26/29 of the letters of our alphabet can be read in two completely different ways, and if you read an initialism with the wrong reading it will either confuse people or make you look incredibly lame. We did it, Reddit! We've created Scandinavian on'yomi and kun'yomi! Ichi-ni-san vs hi-fu-mi, first as tragedy, then as farce!

It of course makes sense when you understand that acronyms/initialisms are just words that can be loaned like any other, up to and including their original pronunciations, and in the abstract this is an interesting phenomenon to observe that isn't at all inherently wrong or bad… But that doesn't make it less frustrating in practice as a person who actually uses this language. And it is of course symptomatic of the cultural and economic hegemony of the Anglosphere on the rest of the world, which is something I'm politically opposed to and disturbed by.

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/6863003

THIS ARTICLE WAS PRODUCED AND FINANCED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF OSLO, ONE OF THE 80 OWNERS OF FORSKNING.NO.

Written by Silje Pileberg (freelance) on November 26, 2025, at 12:02 AM.

You can still be forgotten, even if you're the first letter of the alphabet: Online chatrooms between Norwegian youths are full of dialectal terms, abbreviations, and loans from English, but there is little indication that these tendencies are making their way into school assignments, according to researchers.

Is {"prøva"|"the test"}^[As opposed to prøven, def. sing. of en prøve.] a proper word? This was a question raised by a ninth grader^[Ninth graders are ~14 years old.] in Eastern Norway.^[Eastern Norway consists of the counties of Oslo, Akershus, Vestfold, Østfold, Buskerud, Telemark and Innlandet. It is the most populous region of Norway by far, with the nation's capital and largest city Oslo on the north end of the Oslo Fjord. Eastern Norway also has Norway's biggest lake Mjøsa further inland, and most of Norway's longest river Glomma. Eastern Norway is bordered by Sweden to the east, the region of Agder / Southern Norway to the southwest, Western Norway to the west, and the region of Trøndelag to the north.]

—"Many schoolchildren writing in Bokmål^[Bokmål is the written standard used by up to 90% of Norwegian speakers to write the language. It is strongly based on written Danish, which was the lingua franca / language of the educated upper class during Danish rule over Norway. Knud Knudsen is called the Father of Bokmål.] think that ending words in the letter A is a dialectal thing. A number of them worry that they'll get worse evaluations or even corrections from their teachers if they end their words in the letter A," Unn Røyneland says.

Røyneland is Professor of Scandinavian Linguistics and Multilingualism at the University of Oslo (UiO) and knows more about Norwegians' use of language than most people.

Researchers took over class

Røyneland is a part of a big group of researchers who recently examined ninth graders' use of the Norwegian language at three lower secondary schools^[Ungdomsskole, officially known as lower secondary school in English, comprises grades 8~10 or ages 12~16.] in Western Norway,^[Western Norway is the second most populous region of Norway, consisting of the counties Møre og Romsdal, Vestland, and Rogaland. It is a fjord-laden highly coastal region with major cities like Bergen and Stavanger; the former city has Norway's largest seaport and the latter is the "Oil Capital of Norway". Western Norway is also the region with the highest usage of Nynorsk. It borders Trøndelag to the northeast, Agder to the southeast, and Eastern Norway to the east.] Eastern Norway, and Northern Norway.^[Northern Norway is Norway's biggest region by area and Norway's most sparsely populated region. The region consists of the counties of Nordland, Troms and Finnmark, and borders Russia, Finland, Sweden, and the region of Trøndelag. Also a highly coastal region, most of Northern Norway is north of the Arctic Circle. Major cities include Tromsø and Bodø; other notable locations include the picturesque Lofoten archipelago, and the towns of Guovdageaidnu and Kárášjohka, the de facto capitals of the Sámi people, an Indigenous people whose traditional homeland includes all of Northern Norway, much of Trøndelag, northern parts of Sweden and Finland, and the bulk of Murmansk Oblast in the northwest of Russia.] The researchers substituted for the teachers for one week, and gathered in students' assignments as well as Snapchat messages, and conducted interviews and experiments.

Students distinguish between chats, short stories and nonfiction

Joined by fellow researcher Helle Nystad of the Western Norway University of Applied Sciences,^[Nystad is writing a doctoral thesis about digital social communications.] Røyneland has focused on one part of Eastern Norway where the people generally say "{bedrifta stoppa produksjonen|the company stopped the production}" rather than "bedriften stoppet produksjonen". In this part of Norway, Nystad says, young people end nouns and verbs in the letter A when they write to each other on Snapchat, and also sometimes use A-endings in short stories at school.

—"But in more formal nonfiction assignments, the A-endings are completely absent. One student said that she avoided using them because she wanted to get good grades."

There are, however, some exceptions, namely for a small number of nouns where A-endings remain widely accepted, such as {"bygda"|"the village"} and {"elva"|"the river"}^[Indefinite singular forms: bygd, elv. Alternate def. sg. forms bygden, elven.].

Texts in Bokmål becoming more conservative

A quick refresher on the history here: the year 1938 saw major changes in language policy in Norway, as there was at this time a desire to gradually merge Nynorsk^[Nynorsk is the written standard used by up to 15% of Norwegian speakers, mainly in Western Norway, to write the language. Nynorsk was based on the written standard created by Ivar Aasen based on his studies of rural Norwegian dialects. It's a far more radical departure from written Danish compared to Bokmål. Students who use Bokmål must also learn Nynorsk in schools; many Bokmål users have negative attitudes towards Nynorsk. See "Norwegian language conflict".] and Bokmål — the two competing written standards of the Norwegian language — into a common written standard for the whole country. This was known as the Samnorsk^[I want to translate Samnorsk as "Joint Norwegian". The sam- prefix is roughly equivalent to co-, and carries meanings of togetherness, like samarbeid for "cooperation".] policy.

In Bokmål, it was mandatory for ~1,000 feminine nouns to be inflected with a final A in the definite singular, including words like {"hytta"|"the cabin"} and {"høna"|"the hen"}^[Indefinite singular forms: hytte, høne. Variant def. sg. forms hytten, hønen.]. Bokmål users were also free to choose between writing {"han kastet ballen"|"he threw the ball"} and "han kasta ballen".

With time, however, the Samnorsk policy fell out of favor, and some number of variant forms were removed from the Norwegian language's two written standards in the 2000s.

Although Bokmål and Nynorsk still retain many words with official variant forms today, many users of these standards do not know that these variant forms still have official approval. Røyneland and Nystad notice that this especially applies to Bokmål users.

—"Even spellcheckers like Microsoft Word don't know of these variant forms. These programs are very homogenizing: the vast ocean of Bokmål texts have stylistically become more uniform and conservative," Røyneland says.

Juggling different writing styles with ease

At all three schools, the researchers see that the way the youths write varies based on the recipient: Snapchat messages to friends often use dialectal terms, especially in Northern Norway. Interrogatives and pronouns especially tend to be written dialectally: {"ka hadde dekan te middag?"|"what did you guys have for dinner?"} rather than "hva hadde dere til middag?", for instance.

Youths in all three locales tend to cut out "silent" letters, spelling {"det"|(it, that, the)} as just "d"; and they also use a lot of repeating glyphs such as "mmmmm" and "!!!!!", acronyms such as "lks" for "liksom"^[Liksom is hard to give a single-word gloss for; it has many different meanings. It can mean things like "(just) like", "in some way", "yeah, right!", "pretend/fake", "supposedly", or it can serve as a somewhat emphatic discourse marker.], and loans from English in sentences like {"han e clueless"|"he is clueless"}.

Girls use emojis more often than boys. However, girls mainly use emojis when writing to adults rather than to peers; they do this in order to appear nice and polite.

Although there are some exceptions, the researchers see overall no indication that the youths' chat-speak is "ruining" their writing in assignments.

—"Young people have separate norms for writing in online chatrooms versus writing in school assignments; there's no question about it. They have a big repertoire, as it were," Nystad says.

Students in the East and North don't know Nynorsk

Although many things are the same between the schools in the East, West, and North, there are also many differences: Nynorsk users in Western Norway, for instance, are better at Bokmål than Bokmål users in Eastern Norway are at Nynorsk. Bokmål-using schoolchildren in Eastern and Northern Norway in fact struggle to distinguish Nynorsk forms of words from dialectal terms.

Røyneland, who uses Nynorsk, finds it interesting that the students in Eastern Norway, whose dialect is relatively close to the written Bokmål standard, make the same considerations as she does when they adapt their language use for the target audience of their writings.

—"There have been many situations where I've asked myself whether my Nynorsk could be misunderstood, stigmatized or judged by the reader. The students we've studied know that they're going to be evaluated, and this awareness has an effect on the words they use and what forms of words they use. Even when writing for school assignments they switch between different writing styles," she says.

"Flaska" at home and "flasken" at school

One student said that she used the form {"flaska"|"the bottle"} at home, but "if I had written that on a Norwegian [test], I think the teacher would've called it wrong and corrected me."

Another said that ending words in the letter A looked silly and unserious: "When I'm talking with a girl-friend it's supposed to be a little unserious," the student said.

—"This just shows that there are different norms for writing out in the field," Nystad says.

If there's anything Nystad and Røyneland are worried about, it's that language use constantly adapting itself for the reader will have an effect on our idea of what's correct and incorrect.

—"We could imagine that using the A-forms in chats in Eastern Norway strengthens the impression that these forms are dialectal, and as that happens it could weaken the A-forms' position even more in formal Bokmål," Røyneland says.

About the projectThe "Multilectal literacy in education" (Multilektal skrivekunne i opplæringa) project is financed by the Research Council of Norway and is a joint project between several institutions, led by prof. Øystein A. Vangsnes of the Western Norway University of Applied Sciences and the Arctic University of Norway.

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Sorry if this isn't the right community for this. I've noticed that this is especially prevalent amongst Palestinian musicians. Example. How exactly would I pronounce song 10 "She2 Wa7ad" in this instance?

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/6819666

"From the perspective of an immigrant from a Muslim-majority country, this story sends a troubling message: the message is that simply escaping war should be enough reason to be grateful.”

Feel free to comment on it!

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Disclaimer: I haven't done any research up to this point.

I've always liked learning Spanish but have never felt fluent or even conversational, just directive or able to recite practiced phrases. I took two years in high school, two years in college, and worked in a Latino-plurality community for a decade, so I have a grasp and appreciation for the language, but would like to be better at it.

I tried Duolingo ~10 years ago and thought it was just ok not great.

I tried Rosetta Stone maybe 5 years before that and didn't like it at all.

I'm going to look into taking adult ed classes at the local cc; and I know in person is the best way to learn, but schedules are hard and phones are easy

What's worked for you?

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Literally the meme

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Bilingual dad jokes (hexbear.net)
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submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by miz@hexbear.net to c/languagelearning@hexbear.net

I think this will also be of interest from a political perspective even for those who aren't learning Chinese

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IMO the gender part just became the term because female and male pronouns happen to be separated by many of these systems.

What if nouns were categorised in Welsh (a "gendered" language) by their feline (femme) or canine (masc) traits, or some other arbitrary distinction that was lost over centuries of linguistic shift to align with Anglo-Saxon sexual hierarchies?

It seems small, but subverting the idea of "binary gender" in languages is one of the ways we can give people the language to describe sexuality and gender as a spectrum.

Any linguist chads who know more about why we use "gender" and "masc vs femme" and what people are saying about this in a world where that binary isnt useful anymore?

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submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by RNAi@hexbear.net to c/languagelearning@hexbear.net

THAT'S NOT A THING IN SPANISH YOU IMBECILE

DECADES OF BILINGUAL SCHOOLS, FANCY EUROPE VACATIONS AND CORPORATE ASS-KISSING CAREER AND SOMEHOW YOU ARE ONLY FLUENT IN CORPORATE BLABBER YOU 2007-GOOGLE-TRANSLATE-BRAIN PIECE OF SHIT

"Quisiera pedir un PANCHO"

GO FUCK OFF TO MIAMI WHERE ALL YOU PIOJOS RESUCITADOS SHITSTAINS DREAM TO BELONG

"Espero que este mail los encuentre sanos y salvos"

AT LEAST USE FUCKING ChatGPT YOU THUMBHEAD

So how's your day?

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submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by Erika3sis@hexbear.net to c/languagelearning@hexbear.net

So I was looking at Wiktionary's list of translations of the name "Japan", trying to find some inspiration for what I might call that country in my conlang. There were a few mildly interesting ones, although most of the names were basically just what you'd expect, so I wasn't really getting any inspiration.

And then I noticed the Navajo translation: {Binááʼádaałtsʼózí|????} {Dineʼé|people} {Bikéyah|their-country}. And because Navajo was literally the only spoken language outside of East Asia to not call Japan by some variant of 日本, I thought that maybe learning the etymology of the first word of this mysterious name would solve my conlanging woes... So I clicked the link, and my jaw just immediately dropped. I probably gasped and covered my mouth, too, and I said out loud, "Ohhhh noooo......!! What the fuuuuck broooo......! OK, I'm not calquing THAT for my conlang, that's for sure."

Yup, it's an eye thing! And at that, the Wiktionary page for Binááʼádaałtsʼózí Dineʼé Bikéyah included one link in its "derived terms" section: Binááʼádaałtsʼózí Dineʼé Bikéyah Yázhí. So I of course had to click on that page, too, and it turns out that that's what Korea is called in Navajo, with the somewhat disturbing implication that the Navajo name for Korea is just "Little Japan" — but hey, it's their language, not mine!

So then of course I had to check if Navajo went for the hat trick and also gave China an epicanthic name, and lo and behold, {Binááʼádaałtsʼózí|their-eyes-are-narrow} {Dineʼé|people} {Bikéyah|their-country} {Ntsaaígíí|big}. This is however evidently a less common name for China than {Tsiiʼyishbizhí|braided-hair} {Dineʼé|people} {Bikéyah|their-country}, referring to Qing-era queue haircuts... So there's that.

Edit: Someone commented something that seems obvious in hindsight, which is that these names were deliberately coined by Code Talkers during WWII and have simply remained in use since!


But yeah, American Sign Language. Just like Navajo, it developed naturally within what is now recognized as Seppoland; it has a long and continuing history of repression; its speakers number 100K ~ 1M; it has polypersonal grammar; and it is, on the whole, poggers. And, interestingly enough, it ALSO gave China, Korea, and Japan names modeled on epicanthi! Basically like pointing to the corner of your eye with the initial of the respective country. I learned about this from EtymologyNerd.

These old ASL signs are probably still used by some older people, although they started to fall out of favor in or about the 1990s, and are today discouraged. Here's a 1994 South China Morning Post article about it, with this somewhat striking opening line:

IN a new twist to America's growing thirst for political correctness, Asia's citizens are being defended against an unlikely enemy - the deaf. [sic]

...Which makes it seem to me like SCMP was just kind of laughing at the whole ordeal and not particularly offended by the old signs to begin with. And this kind of gets into how the way people talk (or sheepishly don't talk) about racialized features is very much an arbitrary and culturally bound thing, as much as race itself is. Like if there wasn't this centuries-long history of slurs and caricatures, imperialism and systemic racism, children pulling their eyes... How would we react to these Navajo names and ASL signs?

...Probably differently, but in any case, I'm certainly not going to insist that Navajo should change its names for the countries of the world, because that's an issue I'm entirely not party to.

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