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the odyssey (2026)
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this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2026
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Chapotraphouse
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The ancient Greeks did not have our attitudes towards consent, women's personhood etc. Zeus is, even at his worst, still a righteous force. Even when he is acting against humanity at large. Even when he brought us all disease and death, he did so because we were wrong to think ourselves above our stations.
The ancient Greeks were a bunch of bigoted slaving pirates. Of course they have differing conceptions of right and wrong, of course their ideal guy is messed up.
No, it is Zeus' law. Zeus is upholder of laws in Greek understanding, and especially he is the protector of guests. Athena is also just as evil by any objective reckoning as Zeus is, possibly worse. Her treatment of women in particular is abhorrent. Arachne and Medusa specifically.
The current Americans are also a bunch of bigoted slaving pirates, though.
Bigoted slaving pirate tends to be the tactic du jour for the leading culture of the moment.
I wanna hear you rip on the Greeks more can you expand on the bigoted slaving pirates part
Greek military tactics consisted in part of what we remember from school, movies and videogames, i.e. citizen soldiers standing in front of each other with spears assisted by poor people throwing shit standing in front of one another until one side decided it wasn't really worth dying for this. But it also consisted of slave raids. A favored tactic of the Greeks (And other mediterranean cultures, but oh so very much the Greeks) for literal millennia was to take your boat, look around for a city that wasn't all that well defended, jump in, kill a bunch of people, and sail away with a bunch of slaves.. Think vikings but literate.
You may recognise this tactic if you really think about it, because it's what Odysseus did, the illiad and the Odyssey both speak of this as a totally fine thing to do. This just keeps being a thing the ancient Greeks do from the bronze age, through their dark age, keep on trucking with through much of the classical age, briefly stop doing because Alexander think it's uncool, return to doing for their Hellenistic period and finally give up on when the Romans end independent Greece as a going concern.
This was so much a thing that it shaped the geography of the entire area. It is why so many of the major cities of otherwise naval cultures of the regions aren't port cities, because the Greeks (And others, but oh boy the Greeks) are going to come and sack that shit and take the survivors as slaves. Did you never ask yourself why Athens had a strong navy but no fucking port, why Rome is landlocked. To safeguard from the frequent pirate raids cities were built inland, and a secondary town to handle port business was established at the actual coast and these cities tended not to grow too big because if they did it would be a prime target.
Over time they gradually added more and more traditional "I'm going from my boat to your boat to take the stuff on your boat over to my boat" style piracy to the mix, until entire military alliances were formed just to ward off all the fucking pirates because no individual state was capable of matching the pirate fleets.
Meanwhile they have an entire intellectual class waxing philosophical about whether non-greeks are truly capable of ethical consideration, being as they were lower life forms and natural slaves who not only deserved it but actually were in their natural state being ruled by Greeks.
That's interesting, was it something like curbing shit-stirring against other nations, or more sympathetic reasons? And seems like a good example of "just because a ruler can attempt a reform, doesn't mean it'll outlive them".
If your guys are busy doing raids they are not fighting your war of conquest. By the end of his war of conquest, the obvious targets are also part of his empire. You don't want one city raiding another city when both are YOUR CITIES and you've probably attempted to rename them both Alexandria.
Athens actually had a port Piraeus and long walled corridor, connecting Athens to it. Cities were built inland, because they were built on hills, which were much easier to defend.
Cities in other places were built on hills for the same reason - it is more defensible position, and it was important, because they fought each other constantly. Pirate raids were an important, but secondary threat.
thank you
Good points, my bad
Greeks still considered Prometheus based, even though he was blatantly breaking Zeus' orders.
He certainly wasn't subject to damnatio memoraie or anything, but he was also not, as far as I know, the object of any independent religious activity. Prometheus wasn't worshipped or invoked for blessing independently. Only as an aspect of Athena (I think it was Athena).
You can't hate the guy who brought you fire and established religion. But Zeus was Zeus.