I recently spoke by phone with Shimon Riklin, one of the anchors of Israel’s Channel 14, which is famous for its right-wing slant and strong pro-Netanyahu line. Riklin was long known for founding Israeli settlements; he eventually became a close ally of Netanyahu’s. He has condemned Trump’s Iran deal, calling it “total surrender.” During our conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity, we discussed why he believes that Trump betrayed Israel, his contention that Iran is the modern world’s Nazi Germany, and whether the war should ever have been undertaken in the first place.

Interviewer: How are you feeling about the emerging deal between the United States and Iran?

Riklin: Totally shook. Totally shook. Unacceptable. Amazing. Nobody understands this. Listen, we have a couple of reasons that Israel and America waged war against Iran. One was to prevent nuclear weapons. One was to prevent the development of missiles that could hit, in the future, not only Israel but also Europe and the United States. What Iran tried to do is encircle Israel with fire, with enemies. So there were a lot of reasons. But why did we go into the war if this is what Trump was going to give Iran?

Interviewer: It’s a good question.

Riklin: Listen, we are really grateful, in Israel, for what Donald Trump did for Israel. He gives us a lot of weapons. He gives us space to fight, in terms of the political resistance we face in the world. And then he joins us in understanding the importance of the war against Iran. This is modern-day Germany, Nazi Germany. They are crazy! For us, Iran is Nazi Germany. They want to rule the world. They say, If you don’t become Muslim, we will kill you! After October 7th, we tried to gain back deterrence, so that our enemies around us were afraid. We wanted to break the Axis of Resistance around us. Now what is Trump doing? Everything, or anything that Iran says, he obeys. Trump said to stop the war in Lebanon. Today, an Israeli soldier was killed by Hezbollah. They are allowed to fire on us, but we are not allowed to fire on them.

how the fuck are you supposed to take this shit seriously when Nazi Germany, a country which murdered literally millions of jews, is somehow equivalent to Iran?

Interviewer: Some people might say that Trump and Netanyahu started this war. They bombed Iran, they failed to dislodge the Iranian regime, and Iran decided to hold the entire global economy hostage, which has led to horrific effects all across the world. And so they had to make a deal.

Riklin: Aren’t you supposed to have planned for something like this? If this is what you are going to do, don’t start the war. Don’t do it.

Interviewer: I think a lot of Americans would agree with that.

Riklin: But please listen a little bit. It’s even worse. There is—not was, is—a very good plan to replace the regime. Not one hundred per cent. Not eighty per cent. But most likely.

Interviewer: So, like, ninety per cent, maybe?

Riklin: Let’s be honest. No one can say if it is seventy per cent or eighty per cent.

Interviewer: O.K., but it’s in that ballpark?

Riklin: I can tell you that I speak with people of a very high rank in Israeli defense, and they speak of a seventy- or eighty-per-cent chance to replace the Iranian regime if Trump allows the militias from Iraq to invade Iran.

Interviewer: These are Kurdish militias you’re talking about?

Riklin: Not only. Israel can provide them with weapons. This was part of the plan. And then, to our amazement, Trump said the Kurds didn’t want to fight. But, really, Trump is the one who forbade them from fighting, because Erdoğan put pressure on him not to do it. Israel had a brilliant plan and spent a lot of money, and shocked the Iranians in the beginning of the war. But you prevented the militias from acting, and now you ask why the regime didn’t fall. Because you didn’t give us the chance. In Gaza. In Lebanon. In Syria. In Iran. Everything we wanted to do, you prevented us from doing it.

LITERALLY WHAT IS A SINGLE THING THAT THE US PREVENTED YOU FROM DOING!?

If you go to war, and you define the goal of the war, do it. If not, don’t do it. It’s not only that you don’t do it, but you falsely blame the Kurds and the Israelis. And you give in to all the demands of Iran. And they won’t stop. Tomorrow, they might say, If you don’t close the Embassy in Jerusalem, we will close the strait. Then what do you do?

Interviewer: You said that Israel had this brilliant plan. What did you make of the reports that Netanyahu told Trump that Iran would not close the strait?

Riklin: This is absolutely nonsense. What? What? Not only is that nonsense, but Israel took this into account. I speak with high-ranking people in the military and politics. We are a small country, and we are very careful. Everyone in Israel knew this was a possibility. If you want to win in Iran, it isn’t enough to stop the nuclear program or missiles. You need to change the regime. And Israel brought planning to do it. But we missed the opportunity. The Iranians were in shock at the beginning. Israeli intelligence knew everything.

uh huh

Interviewer: They did close the strait and hold the global economy hostage, though, right?

Riklin: Right, but, but, O.K. O.K. So, it’s your money or your life? Let’s make peace with Hitler, because the goal of the world is money? Even in Israel, we thought it would be a hundred and fifty dollars per barrel of gas. It isn’t. But it’s not good. But, listen, it’s not all about money. It’s not all about money in our life. Money is very important. It enables a good life. Wonderful.

Interviewer: But when you’re fighting a new Hitler, you don’t just focus on money?

Riklin: This is what we think. Somebody will need to deal with this. They speak loudly and clearly. The missiles will wind up in Europe or the United States.

Interviewer: Putting aside the merits of this war, do you think people such as yourself and the Prime Minister misjudged Donald Trump? I know you said a joyful prayer on the air when he was elected in 2024. You must have had some sense of who this guy is—that he isn’t loyal to anyone, that he had no real core values—

Riklin: Listen, I was really happy when he was elected. I admit it. I think it was good for Israel. And, in the beginning, it was. But today I don’t know what to think. I am really in shock.

Interviewer: It’s hard to fathom.

Riklin: I don’t have a lot of moments like this. I don’t remember someone in modern history who would go with you and do wonderful things, and then suddenly disappear and go against you. So now I am the bad guy? I supported you! I was the good guy! How did I become the bad guy, and the Ayatollah is the good guy?

Interviewer: This is why I was wondering whether you had ever observed Donald Trump.

Riklin: I don’t know what motivated him. You know he is a Gemini? Geminis are not really ones to say the same things a lot. They change their minds. You know Geminis?

brother what is even going on in this interviewer, the fuck

Interviewer: Yeah, I’m a Gemini, so don’t be too mean.

Riklin: I’m a Gemini, too. But not like this. I don’t do it to my friends. I must clarify to you how I am feeling: for three years, we have fought to bring back deterrence. And now he is giving Iran what it wants. I feel sorry for him and for us. He has put us at huge risk. And, if we are being honest, I will tell you this: if you compare the agreement Obama did with Iran to this, what’s the difference? In some ways, Obama was more serious.

Interviewer: But you feel like, at first, when Trump came back to office in 2025, for a while, it was actually better? A year ago, the Gaza war was still going on, there was a total cutoff of humanitarian aid, and Trump was presiding over it all. So you think those were better days?

Riklin: Right. In the past, it was really better days. Israel changed their borders with their enemies.

Interviewer: You control seventy per cent of Gaza now, too.

Riklin: It’s more like sixty per cent, but I don’t care. I wish it was seventy. It’s not enough.

Interviewer: Have faith in the future.

Riklin: They promised us that there would be emigration from Gaza. What happened to this?

huh... this concentration camp we've built doesn't have anyone exiting from it!

Interviewer: Who promised that?

Riklin: Trump. And Netanyahu.

Interviewer: Do you speak to the Prime Minister?

Riklin: I used to speak to him a lot, yes.

Interviewer: Why not anymore?

Riklin: If you want to know, then I can tell you. Sometimes, when I think something is going bad, I say what I think, so now we talk less.