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Seems like buying games to remove them from your competitor is a scummier thing to do.

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[-] Matt@lemdro.id 2 points 5 days ago

Valve is being sued because they are forcing others to follow policies that further entrenches Steam as the largest store.

Since Epic bought the game developer, it only applies to themselves. It is much harder to sue someone over a decision that only applies to something they own. How can a company be sued for not selling their product at a store? Should Valve be sued for not selling their own games on Epic or GOG?

Is Epic’s decision to only sell their games on their store annoying for users? Yes. But unfortunately, there is nothing illegal about. There would be a better chance of a lawsuit of Epic paying other game developers for exclusivity, but that would still not be easy as game exclusivity is still a significant factor on game consoles as well. Albeit much less than in the past.

[-] lofuw@sh.itjust.works 31 points 5 days ago

Valve isn't forcing anyone to use their platform.

If Steam's terms aren't satisfactory for developers, then they don't have to use Steam.

I could see Valve controlling a bit of a monopoly in the game launcher and gaming social media markets.

A pro-consumer change that the EU could impose would be to split up the game marketplace from the game launcher and gaming social media markets through intercompatible APIs.

Maybe you could download games from steam in GOG or Lutris, and the steam overlay works on GOG or Lutris too. Maybe your discord friends could show up in the Steam friend list.

[-] kinsnik@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago

There are laws that say that abusing a monopoly is illegal. Steam is objectively a monopoly in pc games. Sure, you don't have to use it, but it is basically impossible for indie developers to make a living without it.

Now, the question is if valve's actions are actually abusing the monopoly, or normal business practices.

[-] MrQuallzin@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago

looks at Hytale doing quite well without even touching Steam

[-] dukemirage@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Hytale has incredible publicity for an indie release and caters to a target group that’s used to a separate launcher. Not comparable to the usual release.

[-] Nelots@piefed.zip -1 points 4 days ago

Got any other modern examples than just the one game that had a massive following for the last 7 years of development?

[-] MagnificentSteiner@lemmy.zip 11 points 4 days ago

Anything by Blizzard, Escape from Tarkov, Minecraft, Roblox, Valorant/LoL/TFT, Genshin Impact/HSR, Fortnite and more.

[-] Nelots@piefed.zip -3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Notably, almost none of those are indie games, and almost any indie game that you did list came out in the 2000s like Roblox, before Steam was the behemoth it is today. Half of them are games by the same sets of AAA studios like Epic Games, Blizzard, and MiHoYo, and most Blizzard games have an entire franchise of games older than Steam itself to piggyback off of. Speaking of, anything by Blizzard isn't even true... their most recent games like Diablo IV and Overwatch 2 are both on Steam. Tarkov is also on Steam now, but I'll admit I'm splitting hairs here since it spent nearly a decade off of it. Though the fact that it released on Steam with its 1.0 update does say something.

So I really don't think any of those games aside from debatably Tarkov shows that the average modern indie dev can be successful outside of Steam.

[-] MagnificentSteiner@lemmy.zip 5 points 4 days ago

You asked a question, I answered. You didn't like the answer so now you move the goalposts.

[-] Nelots@piefed.zip -4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

To be clear, the original comment I responded to said:

looks at Hytale doing quite well without even touching Steam

In response to a comment that said:

There are laws that say that abusing a monopoly is illegal. Steam is objectively a monopoly in pc games. Sure, you don’t have to use it, but it is basically impossible for indie developers to make a living without it.

I never moved the goalposts; modern indie devs were always the goalpost.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago

Star Citizen I guess. If by "well" it is meant "making lots of money"

But yeah it's not realistic at all for 99+% of devs/games

[-] bryndos@fedia.io 2 points 4 days ago

There are not many objectively provable monopolies and i doubt that English law would support that claim without extremely strong evidence, generally utilities are the only ones that'd get close. A necessity with high fixed costs and infrastructure lock-in.

Steam has high market share in a segment, but not necessarily a distinct segment, I'm sure steam would argue that there are enough consumers who can and do substitute between pc and console and mobile, as well as other vendors so that their market power is mitigated by a fair amount of consumer mobility.

So what you're looking to prove is unlikely to be a pure "monopoly" but 'excess market power', and 'abuse of market power'. That is a complex legal art that the competition regulator is usually not that successful at proving, at least in English law.

Abuse of market power has to impact consumers not producers. There are always marginal producers struggling to make a profit - that happens in competitive markets, producers bidding prices down, some going out of business. I'm not saying I agree, but that's more or less how the law sees it, lookup what they let supermarkets get away with in contracts with farmers.

To show consumer harm from upstream market manipulation you'd probably have to show a material dearth of choice being created by steam policies in order to jack up prices. Maybe that can be demonstrated, but it's not simple and more likely to come down to subjective interpretation of the arguments and evidence from both sides rather than any unarguable objective truth.

If it were unarguable or objectively true then the CMA might lead the investigation itself instead of this being a private action. Though maybe this is too small a market for them to worry about.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

You have to differentiate between a monopoly in economics and a monopoly in law.

In economics a monopoly is the only seller of a good with no other competition. If I am the only one who owns apple trees, I got a monopoly on apples.

In law a monopoly is someone who owns so much of the market that they can charge unfair prices. If I am the only one who owns large orchards full of the best kind of apple trees, it doesn't really matter to me that someone else has a couple mediocre trees in their backyard. I am not a economics-monopoly, since someone else is also selling apples, but I hold enough of the market that I can set the price to whatever I want.

(Ok, the analogy isn't perfect, but you get it, I hope. Basically the "excess market power" thing you talked about is the legal definition of a monopoly.)

Customers don't necessarily need to be end customers. If steam is charging their business customers too much, that counts too. (It also affects the end customers too, btw.)

So the question is: If I don't release a game on steam, will that cause it to underperform significantly? If so, does steam charge a lot above market price? If both of these questions are answered with yes, a lawsuit could be successful.

[-] bryndos@fedia.io 3 points 4 days ago

UK law basically doesn't use the term.

My point was that proving dominance and abuse is rarely objective fact. It sure isn't showing market share and that some games companies go out of business. They have to show the things that valve does to restrict competition - being popular isn't enough alone.

Your last question is quite a good example of how hard it is to prove because it includes counterfactual comparisons.

This might be why it seems (if the journo is to be believed) that they're going down the tie-ins angle for the DLC, not necessarily headline pricing. Thou the latter would probably a worse outcome for valve if guilty.

[-] False@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

They essentially removed games that I owned and made it so I could no longer play them by drippy Linux support.

[-] sukhmel@programming.dev 2 points 4 days ago
[-] mushroomman_toad@lemmy.dbzer0.com 39 points 5 days ago

Isn't valve being sued for

  1. Not allowing devs to sell steam download codes on other stores, But the ban only applies if they are selling the download code for cheaper than Steam

  2. Not allowing devs to sell steam DLC download codes on other stores

I don't think 1 or 2 puts other stores at any disadvantage. If a store wants to sell steam download codes then Valve has to get their normal cut. If they don't want to pay the valve tax, then they don't need to offer a Steam download code.

[-] markz@suppo.fi 8 points 4 days ago

So the entire problem is about restrictions on steam codes?

this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2026
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