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‘Seismic shift’: driving unaffordable for many in US amid push toward SUVs (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 150 points 9 months ago (8 children)

If anyone would care to read the article it's more about companies making more high end cars and running low stocks than making cars bigger. They reduced stock during the pandemic and discovered that they can make more money selling fewer cars with maxed out specs than a lot of base models. They simply don't have base models on stock now and people still have to buy cars so profits are soaring. Basically they made everyone depend on cars by killing public transport and are now milking it hard. Because what are you going to do? Work from home?

[–] [email protected] 47 points 9 months ago (11 children)

Good thing China isn't ready to flood the market with millions of cheap electric cars. This short term profit is going to end up biting them in the ass real quick. Although I guess they know they'll just get bailed out, so there's no reason to innovate.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Not to worry: protectionism will take take of the competition. Just like they did with the Japanese manufacturers...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago

Yeah no one drives a Honda or Toyota 🙄🤣

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Oh hey almost exactly like the housing issue... Greedy fucking companies realized they made more making McMansions than starter houses so no one makes reasonable houses anymore and we're all stuck trying to buy 4+ bedroom overpriced shit...

There's no way this could be bad for society at large especially when driving is pretty much mandatory outside of cities. Nah, it couldn't be bad because it's good for corporations. Not that anyone cares. Externalities is just a fancy word...

Remember: can't afford life? Move to a low cost of living area and drive 2 hours to work! ....wait...

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

That's going to break down when Starbucks in San Francisco/etc. can't find workers because the cost to drive 20 miles to work is greater than what they're being paid. That day when low-paying big city jobs disappear because no one can afford to get there and work there is coming very fast.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Remember: can’t afford life? Move to a low cost of living area and drive 2 hours to work! …wait…

The article even mentions some research that in the suburbs people with cars tend to get better jobs.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

That's a lot of words to say "Cartel". Car...tel... get it?

I'm here all day, folks! 👍

Here’s a hint: the automakers are doing great. By essentially coordinating an industry-wide production cut, the pandemic gave manufacturers power to demand mind-boggling prices for fewer cars, leading to record profits. As consumers adjusted their expectations, executives saw an opportunity to establish a lucrative new normal. Low inventory is an “opportunity to drive strong margins”, GM’s CEO, Mary Barra, told shareholders in 2022. Ford’s CEO, Jim Farley, went even further, declaring: “I want to make it extremely clear to everyone: we are going to run our business with a lower day supply than we have had in the recent past because that’s good for our company.”

Also see: collusion... market manipulation... fauxflation.

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[–] [email protected] 143 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Repeal CAFE standards, or just delete the entire catagory of "light truck". If it doesn't have a bed, its not a fucking truck. This entire fucked situation is literally just automakers not wanting to be bothered to make fuel efficient cars when you can call everything a fucking truck and be mostly exempt from having to comply with the far stricter regulations around smaller passenger vehicles MPG standards.

And the automakers give zero shits since they make so much more selling these larger utterly pointless vehicles rather than smaller, more economical ones.

[–] [email protected] 77 points 9 months ago (1 children)

tax light trucks heavily unless the owner can prove they use it for business purposes, like construction or farming

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Light trucks is kinda a crazy category. It's lighter vehicles that

(1) Designed primarily for purposes of transportation of property or is a derivation of such a vehicle, or (2) Designed primarily for transportation of persons and has a capacity of more than 12 persons, or (3) Available with special features enabling off-street or off-highway operation and use

Vans, minivans, SUVs, and crossovers are mostly categorized as light trucks. Most vehicles on the road are light trucks; they outsell cars right now 3 to 1

[–] [email protected] 23 points 9 months ago

And pedestrian fatalities are are on the rise for some reason. Can't imagine why

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Not to "make rules for me" but I do think minivans should get a category of some kind - it puts all it's points in function, and none in sport/SUV, is the most efficient user of space, and generally reasonable hood height. Plus I'm not buying one to brag or strut my stuff.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I used to haul my four wheeler around in the back of my mom's town and country in high school. It was crazy easy to load and unload since the rear deck was so low. Just pulled the seats out, put a tarp down, setup the ramps and pushed it in since it was such a shallow angle. Worked great, did it a couple dozen times.

Minivans are more useful utility vehicles than most modern trucks and I'll die on this hill. The bed height on modern trucks alone is kind bogglingly idiotic.

I'd love something between an Astrovan and a traditional minivan.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

There's one flaw in the design: frontal cross section. They sit as low to the ground as a sedan, but are as tall as a crossover. This makes their aerodynamics terrible.

I'd still prefer one over a crossover, because we haul things on a regular basis and a minivan with the rear-most seats out would be more practical for us. Nobody makes an EV minivan yet, though. Closest thing is the Ford Transit EV, but it's only sold to commercial customers, and its range is limited.

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[–] [email protected] 119 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Maybe it's my interest in economics, but American life is so expensive in part because Americans are willing to spend a shit ton of money because they think they're supposed to. It's like we're all enamored with the idea that bigger and more is better just because someone said so. And then we complain about things being unaffordable like corporations aren't trying to fleece us for all we're worth.

[–] [email protected] 98 points 9 months ago (6 children)

I’ve heard it said that Americans purchase based on the maximal use case as opposed to the typical use case. As an American, that description makes so much sense. As an example, I live in an area where there are a lot of hills and it snows rarely, but just about everyone who can afford a 4WD SUV has one. Heaven forbid they can’t drive around on those 1-2 days a year that it snows! Meanwhile, they get shitty gas mileage driving to work the other 300-odd days of the year.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 9 months ago (4 children)

The maximal use case! That's a good way of thinking about it!

I'm struggling with my SO to buy a reasonable house in a high cost of living area. They want a massive 2000 Sq ft monstrosity because we plan to have a kid soon, and I'm thinking 1500 is more than enough. They're reasoning it's we need space for each other and entertaining. My reasoning is I want to eat out at the nearby fantastic restaurants nearby more often and buy cheese and wine and stuff.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 9 months ago (4 children)

The more walkable the location of the house, the less space you need because that space is outside your house.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (5 children)

US cities are rapidly running out of 3rd places. There's almost no neighborhood commercial centers with a cafe and a pub/bar that you can visit for extended periods of time.

The net result is that the home and the workplace are the primary locations we can spend time in.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago (65 children)

I had to use a unit converter, but I've lived in places housing up to seven people that weren't that big. Comfortably.

This is a conversation I had here recently as well when I pointed out to a car thread that for the money Americans pay for pickup trucks you can also buy a hatchback and a proper van, cover most use cases and not drive a tank to take kids to school. They did NOT like that.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I’m always blown away seeing these blue collar guys driving around these $50-80k trucks that probably get 8 mpg. How do they afford this?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Debt to their eyeballs

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

Also some of them are paid very well. Any of your unionized specialty trades can easily make $150k+ a year, especially if they're willing to travel or work a lot of OT. If you're single or married with no kids, you can pretty easily afford a big fancy truck like that.

If you're willing to travel that can be more than $50k a year in per diem pay, so in two years you can easily pay off a new trailer to live in and a nice truck to haul it with. I personally know people who have done exactly this. The catch is that you need to get into a good union and do your apprenticeship and generally have your shit together. It always surprises me that more people don't know this.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Credit?

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Stop buying SUVs and expensive cars!

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Can't have the poors driving - they should be working! cf. Drive to eliminate internal combustion driven vehicles and replace with EVs as well.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Don't worry! Well make them all return to the office so that 90% of them are forced to commute via car. That means they'll have to buy one even if they can't afford it! It's genius and there's definitely no other way this can be done because otherwise they will miss out on all that important in-office interaction bullshit!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

It blows my mind how many people are paying nearly my rent on their car payment. We've already normalized having 48+ month financing on cars people would never even think about buying because it's 2 years salary instead of a 2 months. But you can pay $800 every month, right?

Better not lose the job you need the car for that you need to pay for the car payment because miss a few and all those payments go bye-bye, it's repo time! Then good luck getting a job, if you can't pay your car payment, you won't even be able to afford a clapped out 94 civic with 200k for $5k. Maybe if you just move out for a few months you can save up enough to get that car. Just a few months on friends couches or in motels, then it will be okay. Then you'll get back on your feet.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Seems like this would be a good time for foreign car companies to take advantage of the US automakers entrenched positions again like Japan did in the 1970s.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Well, I gotta save for a Chrysler 300 because that's the only company who isn't lobbying against right to repair.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago

Chrysler is probably only doing it because they already design their vehicles to be a huge pain in the ass to repair. I remember my buddy having to remove his wheel to replace his battery in his intrepid because the only access was via the wheel well.

I've also heard a story about Toyota where they would buy competitor vehicles to disassemble them and see what they were up to and they stopped bothering to even look at Chrysler vehicles because they didn't have anything useful to learn from their designs.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

Chrysler dealership wants $450 to diagnose an issue on my 200. Local shop directed me to them because it was an electronics issue that they would need to repair. Not sure I would trust Chrysler either.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I just bought an old diesel Mercedes that I'm hoping will last me until the next era of car technology. I can't believe how easy it is to work on, almost as if it was designed to be maintained instead of to discourage the owner from doing so.

Currently it's had only 200k of its reputed million miles used up, so it has a long way to go yet!

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

I like how the article mentions: The preferred solution of many planners – replace car trips with transit – faces difficult odds in this country. Yet the last paragraph discusses s proposed solution being provide money to help lower income people buy and maintain cars.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

the average used car lists at more than $26,000

Craig's list is your friend. Giant pile of cars there for four digits.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago (1 children)

ones that run are in the high four digits, and the days of a sub $1000 running beater are over

[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I'm hanging on to my sub $1000 beater. Late 90s Civic with 240k miles and no clear coat still has better mpg than our newish CRV.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

My 2022 crv hybrid gets about the same mileage as my wife's stick shift 2012 civic!

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

It's a good thing we give them so much TAXPAYER money! I'd MUCH rather give THESE men my Money then STARVING CHILDREN!

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