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[–] [email protected] 53 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

idk, I have a hard time taking any poll of Americans seriously when it comes to foreign policy in general and Palestine/Israel in particular. Talk to any American for five minutes about the wider world and you’ll quickly realize you may as well be talking to a beagle.

Even when they are honest and can admit they don’t actually know what’s going on in other countries, they will still feel they are entitled to have an opinion on it and that their opinion is correct.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The people who think Taiwan is in New Zealand also have an opinion on Israel and Palestine.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That's a very broad definition of "correct" on that map lmao.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

Smh can't believe this map doesn't state that all of mainland china belongs to Taiwan.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

Yeah why the hell do you pick the ocean instead of the island right there?? Were people asked to use a really tiny touchscreen??

[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I guess it depends on the demographics. At my college, there are many black, Hispanic, and Arab students. Almost all of the ones I’ve spoken to are sympathetic towards Palestine.

White people will be weirder about their stances, because as you said, the ones who don’t understand the problem will still end up taking a side due to vibes. The East/southeast Asians I’ve talked to are usually too focus on securing that Lockheed internship to really care.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My bad, I did the thing where I said “Americans” when I should have said “white Americans”.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago

Shame on you for your cracker erasure.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I got on to my mil about Russia Ukraine a month ago, asking if she knew what eumaidan was or knew anything about Crimea or Donbas. Absolutely no knowledge of any, not even an idea which were places or events. She agreed she didn't know even the basic history and didn't bring it up the rest of the week. Que thanksgiving and she's talking about it again, ask again about those 3, still no clue. jokerfied

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Had she looked up euromaidan since then?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not op, but no, no she haven't.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago

The real white man's burden is having to deal with other white people

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago (4 children)

The zoomers are going to put us old people all in the pit and we will deserve it

[–] [email protected] 45 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Ngl sometimes it’s hard to not be mad at every single person over the age of 45 for not murdering at least one fossil fuel exec by now

This was your responsibility assholes, and now I have to live in the world y’all fucked up

People older than like 40 need to start making excuses for the lack of terror

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I'm a Zoomer and if you're talking about the US, communist party membership was literally like 5 times higher in their days than right now

Boomer bashing is dumb

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

The boomers tried to do this when they were still young in the 60s. They ended up blowing themselves up on accident lol

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

I know what you mean, but there were a lot of violent revolutionary movements that happened worldwide in which people who are now over the age of 45 were the primary participatory demographic.

You can be mad at older revolutionaries for not being successful, and even then the anger is perhaps misplaced, but I don't think it was for lack of trying.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That age range is mostly zoomers

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Just barely majority zoomers depending on what year you're using as the cutoff

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago

The main reason I have this account is so that I can show it as evidence of mitigating circumstances at my Zoomer-led people's trial.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm a late millennial, I can be a wise old hermit sage to the zoomers in the post climate wars apocalypse era.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

talk to enough zoomers and you'll come to understand that anyone older might as well be a boomer.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

there's gotta be some more rigorous explanation for why in this kind of poll, when you break it down by gender, a majority of men always pick the evil option.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

More privilege and more aggressive/violent. Sure one could write a whole essay analyzing this but it should come down to mainly those two reasons

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Being a man seems to be far less of a factor than being a KKKraker though.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

yeah, but that one makes sense to me. Racewar is the preferred struggle of The West, including Israel. White supremacy and Jewish supremacy are clear allies. maybe it just speaks to my lack of feminist education, but what is particularly masculine about bombing babies? And I realize gender is riven with these sorts of contradictions, but is there not also a masculinity in the palestinian struggle for dignity and freedom from the yoke of imperial domination? Why is that so much less appealing to the USian male?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Men are generally socialized to be more okay with violence and use of force. Some dudes also think it's unmasculine to call for peace over war. A kind of "fellas, is it gay not to bomb hospitals?"

White supremacy and Jewish supremacy are clear allies.

This is true and it's so absurd to think about. Imagine telling Hitler that in 80 years the White race will die on the hill of defending Jewish settlers.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Because a lot of us are kids at heart (aka immature) to whom war is nothing but a show, especially if it's happening far away.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago (2 children)

But as we all know universities are the breeding grounds of leftism thinking-about-it

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

The scaling is kind of fucky, most values are in the 30-70 range but the bars make it seem like 20-90

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

American campus Bolshevism, sponsored by Israel and Lockheed Martin and the NSA

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago

Education in this context only means, College vs Not College. It doesn't mean, educated in world history and politics.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Interesting, I've seen other polls with inverse correlation between edu level and pro-Palestine starting from high school diploma to to phd

50% of college grads approve of Biden's handling of Israel and Palestine compared to 25% non college grads though lmao

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

On 12 January 1971, the federal government indicted Philip Berrigan and other East Coast antiwar activists on felony charges of plotting to impede the Vietnam War through violent action. The activists' agenda supposedly included blowing up underground heating pipes in Washington to shut down government buildings, kidnapping presidential adviser Henry Kissinger to ransom him for concessions on the war and raiding draft boards to destroy records and slow down the draft.

The Justice Department prosecutors chose to hold the conspiracy trial in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, a conservative area where a randomly chosen jury would be heavily against the defendants. However, before the jury was selected at what came to be known as the Harrisburg-7 trial, a group of left-leaning social scientists supporting the defendants interviewed a large number of registered voters in the area to try to figure out how to get a sympathetic jury there. They discovered, among other things that college-educated people were more likely than others to be conservative and to trust the government. Thus, in court, during the three weeks that it took to examine 465 potential jurors and pick a panel of 12, lawyers for the defense quietly favored skilled blue-collar workers and white-collar workers without a lot of formal educations—nonprofessionals, although the sociologists and lawyers apparently never used that term.

The lawyers were uneasy doing this, however, because it went against their intuition. The notion of closed-minded hard hats and open-minded intellectuals is widespread and is reinforced by mass-media characters like loading-dock worker Archie Bunker and his college-student son-in-law, "pinko" Mike. In fact, All in the Family made its television debut the very day of the Harrisburg indictments, 12 January 1971; by the time the trial and jury selection started, it had been on the air for a year.

Ignoring these false stereotypes paid off. The government put on a month-long, $2 million extravaganza featuring 64 witnesses, including 21 FBI agents and 9 police officers. The defense called no one to the witness stand. After seven days of deliberation, the jury was not able to reach a unanimous decision, and the judge declared a mistrial; but with 10 of the 12 carefully selected jurors arguing for a not-guilty verdict, the government dropped the case.^2^

Blue-collar skeptics? Loyal intellectuals? Was the Harrisburg survey a regional fluke? Look at what the nationwide polls showed at the time. On 15 February 1970 the New York Times reported the results of a Gallup poll on the war in Vietnam.^3^ Gallup had found that the number of people in sharp disagreement with the government over the war had increased but still constituted a minority. While this increase in opposition was important news, what were particularly interesting were the data on the opinions of subgroups of the population. These numbers announced with striking clarity that those with the most schooling were the most reluctant to criticize the government's stand in Vietnam. There was a simple correlation (although only in part a cause-and-effect relationship): The further people had gone before leaving school, the less likely they were to break with the government over the war. (See note 3 for the results of the poll.)

  1. New York Times, 13 January 1971, p. 1. Jay Schulman, Phillip Shaver, Robert Colman, Barbara Emrich, Richard Christie, "Recipe for a Jury," Psychology Today. May 1973, pp.37-44, 77-84; reprinted in Lawrence S. Wrightsman, Saul M. Kassin, Cynthia E. Willis, editors, In the Jury Box, Sage Publications, Newbury Park, Calif. (1987), pp. 13-47. Jack Nelson, Ronald J. Ostrow, The FBI and the Berrigans, Coward, McCann & Geoghegan, New York (1972). William O'Rourke, The Harrisburg 7 and the New Catholic Left, Thomas Y. Crowell Company, New York (1972).

  2. New York Times, 15 February 1970, sec. 1, p. 4; or George Horace Gallup, The Gallup Poll, vol. 3, Random House, New York (1972), pp. 2237-2238. The question was worded as follows "Some U.S. senators are saying that we should withdraw all our troops from Vietnam immediately. Would you favor or oppose this?"

                        Favor   Oppose  No opinion

National average        35      55      10

By age group
21-29 years             39      57       4
31-49 years             36      56       8
50 and over             33      53      14

By extent of education
College                 29      64       7
High school             34      58       8
Grade school            44      41      15

From Disciplined Minds: A Critical Look at Salaried Professionals and the Soul-battering System That Shapes Their Lives by Jeff Schmidt, Chapter 1 "Timid Professionals"

Bold emphasis is mine.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I think that's a good demonstration of why you rarely can draw useful conclusions from opinion polling. slight changes in wording that do not actually change the issue in question (given that one actually understands what is being asked) will dramatically change how respondents understand the issue. a question about "Biden's handling" of the conflict can easily lump pro-palestinian respondents in with insane right wing zionists who think the Biden administration's mild chiding of Netanyahu while giving him everything he asks for is tantamount to betrayal. And what good does it do to ask about Israel's military conduct when all the journalists doing actual reporting on that military conduct are being systematically murdered?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think the “education” part is too relevant tbh. Although they’re not Marxist hubs like republicans portray, campuses tend to have more organizations and students that aren’t strictly adherent to the status quo, so if you’re never exposed to that then you’re likely gonna keep supporting whatever you supported before.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago

education level is mostly a proxy for income level when income level aren't a category

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