this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 186 points 11 months ago (3 children)

“When the astronauts went to the moon, there was nothing there. They certainly weren't bored."

Yeah I think that might be because they were on the moon and not pressing WASD to walk around a fake moon

[–] [email protected] 49 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If you landed in an in-game fake moon it would be a wonderfully interesting plot thread.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It also bugs me that Bethesda keeps saying that the game is about exploration and finding new planets, but so far every planet I've visited has some kind of building upon it. Its clear that people have been on this planet before, so why the hell should I explore this planet? At least give me some incentive or a better reward for finding a true empty planet.

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[–] [email protected] 175 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Customer: I didn't like the taste of this cake.

Management response: Dear customer, thank you for taking the time to try our cake. This is a cake, which is sweet and tasty by definition. We made the cake so customers can enjoy the cake and taste the typical cake ingredients which taste sweet and tasty. The cake experience as we created should appeal to everyone because cake is tasty.

Customer: Wtf, it tastes like wet socks!

Management: Cake

[–] [email protected] 78 points 11 months ago

Customer: Hey there, customer outreach person; how does it feel to repeat yourself over and over again?

Management response: As a large-language model, I am unable to experience feelings the way humans do. Moreover…

[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You're enjoying the cake wrong, it's supposed to taste like shit

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 85 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I didn’t find any of the responses to be insightful, more a marketing reply to convince people who are off put by the negativity. This is coming from someone who’s played the game nearly 80 hours. Still disappointed by it, but I have a hoarding sim problem

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Bethesda games make hoarding painful though.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Are you kidding? Slowly unloading your ship 200 pounds at a time and waiting for it to hopefully actually transfer to the pods is so fun. Not to mention they have absolutely no storage so you need a wall of them that you must then manually search to find anything. The best is when your cargo ship doesn't fit on the landing pad so you have to carry it all yourself. Or you could build a convoluted network of shipping docks and either manually fuel them or create another convoluted network of shipping docks just to ship helium 3 to all the other shipping docks. Fuck I love loading screens.

Rage aside, the game itself was pretty fun for a run or two, but after that the shallowness really showed. Outposts suck ass though. I made shitty ones and figured I'd hit ng+ before actually caring about them, but I couldn't make myself care. Benches go outside, I don't give a shit.

God I'm just remembering how bad it is now. If the terrain isn't perfectly level go fuck yourself, you can't expand your hab. I build a fucking boardwalk with multiple levels and shopfronts in FO4, I had nearly full map coverage for artillery, I could attract settlers to live there and defend it. Now I just drop an extractor and power and fuck off.

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 11 months ago

I wish these idiots would quit trying to tell the people playing the game that they are wrong for not liking it. Like, no man, listen to them, this is feedback. You can't take all of it without a pinch of salt but if you see a common theme, then you should address it.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Bethesda, simply put, doesn't know how to react to criticism. Instead of taking this feedback and improving their product they double-down and insist that you should like it because they said so. If it's boring it's boring man. They are simply as disconnected as possible. Remember the whole canvas bag fiasco? Then they said "ah, canvas costs too much, we aren't planning on doing anything with the nylon one"... deal with it in other words. Then they were puzzled why people disliked them to all hell.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (5 children)

I can’t believe how ignorant you are of the worldwide canvas shortage of 2018. Canvas became a global strategic resource. Lack of canvas destabilized numerous nation states.

The idea of frivolously wasting that precious canvas on a video game trinket is frankly offensive.

-Bethesda, probably.

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Some of Starfield’s planets are meant to be empty by design — but that's not boring. “When the astronauts went to the moon, there was nothing there. They certainly weren't bored." The intention of Starfield's exploration is to evoke a feeling of smallness in players and make you feel overwhelmed.

May as well boot up SpaceEngine then.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Starfield, the epitome of scientifically correcty simulations. Why would I expcet my Starship Travel Simulator 2000 to be a fun-focused game after all, durr.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

scientifically correct

Why doesn’t nasa just open up the starmap and simply fast travel to the moon or mars?

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago

It really evoked a feeling of smallness in me. Namely how small and devoid of content the universe feels.

This is made worse because every inhabited planet I go to has some elaborate situation just waiting for me to solve it. For example: I land on the landing pad, walk 30 meters through a gate and am greeted by a hostage situation in a bank where the hostage negotiator is going to let me, some random, go do his job instead of him, trusting me with the lives of everyone involved without even blinking.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I have played most of the fully 3D Bethesda RPG games and I am accustomed to their game design, bugs, and janks.

But the only thing I hate about Starfield is just the way the game always talks about how amazing exploration of the unknown is (heck, your main character is even a part of the explorer group name Constellation) while trying everything it can to stop player to do just that (overly rely on teleportation, cannot travel seamlessly between planets, etc...)

It feels like you are playing an institute scientist in an fallout game, always stay in your high tech base and only travel using teleportation to the outside world

This is a major turn off for me and there is no way to fix it

[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago (8 children)

100%. The best part of Bethesda open world games is exploring the open space between towns, quests, objectives, etc. Fast travel is an option, but rarely necessary. If you rely on it you will miss lots of cool stuff.

Not so in Starfield, the space between objectives is literally empty space.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

Yeah it's quite an accomplishment to make the vastness of space feel claustrophobic and small.

Some of the response to the reviews is bizarre - one seems to try to claim that the planets are not boring because they're realistic and the real world is boring, and that the player is probably just overwhelmed by the awesomeness of it all.

It almost feels like the game Devs have convinced themselves that they've been working on the greatest game ever made and when told "no you haven't" they're responding by saying "you just don't get our vision".

It's an ok game. I'm actually less bothered by the loading screens and more by the old fashioned story telling. This game would have been amazing if released closer after Skyrim. But it's been 12 years and we've had Witcher 3, Cyberpunk and Baldurs Gate 3 that have changed expectations. All of them are better at evoking a sense of emotional engagement with the game, and actions having meaningful consequences in the plot. Subplots like the bloody baron in Witcher 3, or Judy in cyberpunk have stuck with me in a way characters and events in Skyrim and now Starfield just never have.

Problem is I suspect Bethesda will focus on all the loading screen / sense of scale complaints and not register the more important (imo) issues with the stories, characters and gameplay. Less but better is the real lesson I think.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If a significant amount of people "misunderstood" you, it's not their fault, but yours for not clearly communicating or not tailoring your communication for the target audience.

Same here: if people play the game "wrong", you didn't design it properly and/or marketed it completely wrong.

Sure, there will always be "dumb" (or too clever) individuals who you simply can't properly address and satisfy, but if the group is large enough to be loud, you failed your job.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If a significant amount of people "misunderstood" you, it's not their fault, but yours for not clearly communicating or not tailoring your communication for the target audience.

I find this ironic, because even the tutorials in the game only communicate half of the information you need. A lot of them just outright expect you to have played one of their games before. I could imagine if this was someone's first Bethesda RPG, they'd be confused as hell. Plus there are a few things unique to Starfield that are confusing even if you've played every one of their games before.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (21 children)

No Man's Sky has had no loading screens during gameplay, and space to planet transitions on full planets, since what... 2016?

The Creation Engine is just too damn old.

Edit @Dark Arc: You're right. Creation Engine is just too damn shitty, I guess. I called it "old" because the gameplay feels so antiquated.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago (11 children)

"Engines" are not static things. What we call "Unreal Engine" goes back to the 90s.

These comments always bug me as a programmer because it's like someone calling a 2023 Camero old because it doesn't have the acceleration of a 2023 Mustang... The "age" almost certainly isn't the problem, it's where the effort has or hasn't been put in to the engine and more importantly the game itself (e.g., carrying on the metaphor, the Camero might be slower getting up to speed because all the R&D for the last 3 years was on a smooth ride).

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Yeah to be honest what strikes me the most about companies like Bethesda is just how little they've improved over the decades. There's nothing stopping them from making major improvements like removing loading screens, adding vehicles finally (I wonder if the ships are really a hat like the train in fallout 3), fixing the buggy ass collisions and physics, or any number of dumb shits they just keep leaving in game after game. It really speaks to the institutional inertia and spaghetti mess their code must be.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Good job, guys, I'm sure that'll fix it.

Fuck. I mean I even liked Starfield but this level of mishandling the public perception is absolutely unreal.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Honestly, this behavior of responding to player feedback and arguing about how "it's just because you didn't play the game right!" is kinda unhinged.

It also, to me, really takes Bethesda's mask off and reveals what their culture must be as a company. Based on these responses, they seem so convinced that they shit gold that they've stopped entertaining feedback or trying to innovate much in their games much at all. Kinda confirms some of the criticism I've seen of them since Fallout 4 and 76 came out.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

It seems to me like someone in the PR department decided they needed to "try something new," and then didn't actually run the idea by anyone who could say this is a stupid plan. Someone on the community management team got a promotion and thought it was time to make a bold move, and they were absolutely wrong.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Landing on the boring planets wasn't my problem with the boring game.

The ground combat was terrible. The space flight was terrible. The space combat was terrible. And it was wedged into every activity for no reason other than lazy design to pad things.

And then there was the UI...

You can't "feel small" when the game makes you a fiddly murder hobo in the tutorial.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I love that steam reviews can make companies take notice and is harder to shove away compared to other types of reviews with how it's always there on the store page.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Hot take: Alan Wake 2 would have a lot of explaining to do if EPIC had a review system. My disappointment with that game was immeasurable and my weekend was ruined.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There may in fact be a few games where empty spaces and a sense of vastness actually contribute to the atmosphere and make for an enjoyable game. But NOT in a game that’s divided by fucking loading screens with not a single “vista” to look out at.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago

Everyone seems to be missing the point so I'll let Todd Howard remind you all, "We're going to be doing a lot of add-on content for Starfield."

$5 horse armor folks. That's Bethesda. Stop paying them to make garbage, or at least stop complaining about it.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Cool, so I'll wait to pick this game up until it's $10 on a steam sale in 5 years, and play the community's modded version.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Luckily only tried it once on gamepass. For sure has some interesting parts to it (I did like the ship designer) but it hit me on the second location I explored - this is pretty much a Skyrim reskin. The are randomised dungeons everywhere for no goddamn reason whatsoever, my goddamn spaceship can only fit like 5 suits.... alright. Been there, done that, I'm out.

Looking for a re-release in 5 yrs with all the add-ons and mods, maybe I will get it then.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Pirated it but it wasnt worth the disk space. Tried it for a couple hours but it was so boring. I have done a quest for a bank where I was supposed to collect money. It went like this: Fast travel to the ship. Fast travel to the planet the person is on Talk with them. Fast travel back to ship Fast travel to bank planet Fast travel to bank. Talk to bank guy to get money. Next bank quest. Rinse and repeat

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Looks like Bethesda discovered ChatGPT.

Some of those replies are as bland, hunky-dory and sanitized as can be, with a dash of "you're playing it wrong".

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

Corporate speak incentivizes bland language. Standing up for as little as possible brings as few enemies as possible, after all. Unfortunately, an empty, bland proposal can only result in empty, bland art.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 11 months ago

oh good, this reminds me I haven't bothered to leave a negative review yet. let me correct that.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (12 children)

Starfield frustrates me, because in many ways its a major step in the right direction. It has much better roleplaying mechanics than Skyrim or Fallout 4, but at the same time the lore is half-baked and the skill system is fairly weak. It has great potential, but a lot of it feels toned down and less "real" because of it. Space exploration has a lot of potential as well, but setting every objective so far apart on planets ruins exploration by filling it with monotonous procgen.

That's why I'm fairly confident that once properly patched, and mods/DLCs are in full swing, it will probably be remembered very fondly despite the release state. It'll pull a Cyberpunk.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (7 children)

I think everything you said here is spot on except the idea Starfield will improve pike Cyberpunk at this point because Bethesda's attitude really doesn't indicate that they seem to admit anything needs fixing.

With that said I doubt many people expected Cyberpunk to do as well later on so you are probably right and I hope you are for the game and genre. I really like the aesthetic of Starfield and want it to succeed.

I'm just so tired of getting such half baked stuff at release.

One annoying thing about the "make your own stories" concept is that content us going to be recycled. My followers don't say anything new or have new things to do etc because it's all baked in but also on this supposedly open RPG landscape.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I played 50 hours of Starfield. I had fun.

But two things are true. It's a step back from no man's sky and it's not worth playing more than 50 dollars for.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Starfield was super fun until it wasn't. I have no desire to ever go back to it. Skyrim on the other hand....

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)
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