Immediately make everything financially separate, and take marriage off the table, until she fixes things.
It's good that she confessed to you about it immediately. But maybe bringing up "the debt" as a You problem is a sign of deeply problematic thinking.
Also what is this:
Went to buy surplus grain from Sawhill farms and needed to withdraw 1000.
$1000 in surplus grain? Like for your hog farming operation or something? Or are you feeding a Super Saiyan?
I’m preparing for food shortages
Are you going to mill your own grain? Whole grains last longer but they take more effort to process.
I just saw the coolest little countertop mill, for a steal of a price, on eBay Li- aw, fuck.
Frankly this isn't an internet behavior though hers is enabled by it (and steps should be taken to address that by her). People have been doing this to their partners since at least the advent of painless credit cards and the debt associated with it if not before with things like store credit.
She needs to commit to no more shopping apps, closing that account once you make as many returns and re-sales of bought goods as you can (and limiting her own access to it during that time), work hard on understanding the difference between "needs" and "wants" and budgeting only a limited amount for "wants" and sticking to that as part of self-discipline.
At the very least /she/ not you needs to make the effort to save the marriage and fix her problems. You can lead her to counseling but she needs to really be proactive and if it's a situation where you're dragging her around trying to fix her and she isn't putting in the effort well you should recognize that and act accordingly as she has to want to acknowledge, show remorse, make amends, and change. You can be there for her but don't allow her to turn this into a pity party for her.
I disagree characterizing this as the same as drug addiction because it's not. It's poor impulse control, poor financial literacy and some of it might stem from other mental health problems but it's not an addiction anymore than lots of sex, masturbation, or porn use would be despite what self-flagellating Christians may say. It's a feel good behavior that is not an addiction which she ran away with against any financial sense and in that respect it's not that different from a partner who cheated and said they just lost control of their feelings because it's the same pleading of "forgive me for being irresponsible, selfish, and not thinking or exercising impulse control that most people beyond their teenage years have". In both cases it's about self-regulation and making choices including self denial and thinking through consequences for yourself and others rather than going with the flow of whatever is easiest or feels most fun in the moment and then hiding it. And like cheating the fact she went behind your back, betrayed your trust makes this a big problem for the relationship.
I disagree with your assessment that it 'isn't an addiction'.
These apps, especially auction house apps using buy now, pay later schemes, are specifically designed around triggering gambling addiction behaviors. It is basically the same way that micro transactions work for kids. Granted, it doesn't seem as severe as a full-blown gambling addict (where you don't even need to get anything to stimulate the behavior), but nevertheless, it is the same dopamine response malfunction, is a behavior specifically preyed upon by capitalism, and definitely a sign, at this stage in adult life, of some underlying mental health issues. At the core of the issue isn't the personal failure of the individual but a society that allows and tolerates this kind of exploitation of the underdeveloped and unwell.
That said, while I disagree with your diagnosis, I agree with your general solution at this time.
Yeah no. If it's gambling addiction then so is a mall shopping spree because they have signs with blinking lights and other positive reinforcement including sales people who will be disappointed if you don't buy after their pitch.
People hide problems of responsibility behind technological wizardry claims. Yeah there are big problems with abusive psychology under capitalism. Yes some of them have been refined a bit and are newer but this isn't gambling. Gambling you stand to win back money if you succeed and there's the thrill of blind results driving people to keep pulling the lever in expectation of the excitement of the unknown and the prospects of that. We can talk about children with a lack of impulse control being preyed on by lootbox mechanics because they're kids but adults need to have this kind of basic skill to survive under capitalism. That skill being a modicum of self-control. But this is knowing exactly what she was purchasing and how much it could come out to.
I agree it's a sign of some sort of mental unwellness but I'm not sure it's something diagnose-able with a DSM code and in that sense it could be quite hard to treat with therapy as it would likely involve really confronting their inner self, who they are, formative history, etc which are things many people find hard and would rather avoid. If they're already avoiding the not that hard work of financial discipline then short of something seriously challenging to their life forcing them to confront themselves they may not have it within them to face the hardship of this kind of self-investigation and course of change. Maybe the threat to their marriage will do that but often it takes a bigger jolt than that and often such a jolt of sufficient level isn't reached at all and the person goes through life with constant crises and no real healing. I hope for OP's sake and that of their partner they are able to get at root causes and find some healing but I hope OP is realistic about this being a common problem that may not end well either.
As far as dopamine response that's why I brought in sex "addiction" and porn "addiction". There are cases in the literature of people who will compulsively masturbate to the detriment of their well-being, who will shirk jobs, responsibilities, a social life to sit home and just pleasure themselves. Masturbation however is not an addiction nor an abusive behavior and their problem does not stem from masturbation or incredible sex toys but from motivation, self-discipline, etc. Often people with ADHD or other problems with long-term goal-setting and thinking have problems in the nature of that type of thing of self-destructive short-term thinking behavior that neglects longer-term goals. But the solution isn't to say "oh it's an addiction, not your fault" but to understand it is their fault, they need to find ways to cope, to discipline themselves, to avoid triggering things, and to survive and thrive in the world they find themselves in by adapting.
Abusive psychology under capitalism is a plague and ruins a lot of things and lives but it is not an addiction and doesn't stem from addiction and compulsive behaviors are not addictions and should not be regarded or treated as such because it's missing the real problem on a personal level (yes, yes capitalism is the REAL problem but OP can't do anything about that).
You literally just restated my whole thing back to me, just disagreeing with the language around "addiction" back at me. I disagree, because I view 'addiction' as a spectrum of behaviors. And even within your own definition, which I disagree with, the fact of the matter is that it is an auction house. You don't know if you are going to win. That is the thrill of the thing. Hence why it is in the spectrum of gambling addiction.
This is pretty irrelevant though, as even a drug addict is still responsible for their actions.
I get it though, you don't like the semantics. However, as you yourself said, "Adults need this kind of skill in order to survive capitalism." And the cause may be a lack of self-disclipline, brought on from potential mental illness (not going to diagnose the cause, however several large and sudden purchases can be a sign of a manic episode). Hence why, maybe, thinking about as a self-destructive and addictive behavior, in need of treatment, is a better way to think about it. Or maybe she is just a shitty person, as many people with and without mental illness are.
However, just because you can't do anything about capitalism doesn't mean you have to apply a neoliberal bootstrap ideology to mental health. However, if they are unwilling to engage themselves in self-crit, there is very little that can be done.
It doesn't really matter what you call it, as long as they are looking to solve it and correct the wrongs they have done.
Edit:Also I am not getting into sexual addiction or whatever, just because I literally don't know anything about it.
If she's willing to work at it, going to a couples counselor would be helpful. Really digging into why she's seeking out something like this in the first place.
But she has to be willing to restrict her own access to funds and access to auctions or other addictive spending platforms. Spending like that can be as addictive as gambling for some, and needs to be treated in a similar way. Also, she needs to work at building the savings account back.
mhmm. i also gotta say the immediate response of "this debt i accrued is your problem, you need to find a solution", even if later backtracked, is definitely not a healthy immediate response. sounds like there's quite a few things worth raising in counselling. i hope you manage to work things out OP
Therapy is pseudo science imo
Couples counseling is mediation and working on communication. You need to be willing to work on this just as much as your partner.
Going behind your back is a massive red flag, but only you can know if it's a problem that can be addressed or one sign among many that she can't be trusted. The typical Internet answer is to just go immediately to a maximalist position but I agree with the couples counselor option if that's possible, just keep your mind open that maybe she just needs help, while also being ready to break it off to protect yourself if it looks like she can't or won't actually put in effort on her end.
Think of it like this. If she had amassed this debt with a gambling addiction or a drug addiction or an alcohol addiction, would that be a dealbreaker for you? If so, then yeah, sure, time to get out. But if not, then just keep in mind that this is the same thing as all of those. Addiction is a disease and it makes people do illogical and harmful things to people they love. It can be treated and it can be solved.
It's not necessarily your responsibility to go through all that effort. You have the right to withdraw of course. But if you want to, and if she's willing to put in the effort, then it doesn't have to be the end.
That last part's important though. Nobody unwillingly loses an addiction. You can't take it from her. It's something she has to recognize the harm in and want, just as much as you, to solve.
People can have bouts of weakness, especially when there are things that are positioned to exploit that weakness. If there are no problems in the relationship otherwise it would be best to get through it together. I would definitely not treat this something like cheating or anything like that.
yes
the issue isnt the spending addiction (which she needs help for) and more the going behind your back
Addicts lie about their addiction because they're embarrassed. Its not something nefarious like "behind my back" implys. If they were a serial liar I think OP would noticed and could drag their character into it.
I hid my nicotine addiction behind my partner's back (I relapsed) for half a year before finally telling her.
It started off as "I didn't actually relapse, this is just a bump in the road"
Then I started lying to myself, saying this was the last time I'm buying zyns at the gas station, rinse and repeat for months.
Got to the point where I became too embarrassed to say I relapsed, had a zyn in my mouth at all times, felt like I was having withdrawals even if I had one in my mouth.
Finally admitted to it after she suspected something, felt really ashamed, but it was like a weight was off my chest.
Quit shortly after, having someone supporting you can really give that final push to quit
that's fair. it's more that i wouldn't be able to deal with that breach of trust regardless of the reason personally
ya idk how i'd recover after such a breach of trust. sorry op, shit sucks.
It’s only money I can get that back. I can’t get my girl back, no sir
That sucks. I'd echo the other comments that say this is salvageable, but priority has to be a) you protecting yourself and b) her being able and willing to get the help she needs to address whatever lead to this behavior. Both the excessive spending but also hiding it and going deep into debt on your shared account.
If you are in a relationship with someone who has a destructive addiction then you are exposing yourself to the fallout from that.
Also I'm sorry to hear all this, obviously this means a lot given that you are engaged and she helped you in the past.
I wouldn't see her spending habits as much of a red flag as the whole: just hanging up and pretending to sleep part. I feel like the spending part is easier to fix than the lying and being turbo immature und kinda hard or impossible to fix. Also, no offense to anyone but thinking it would be cheaper to use klarna or similar services seems just super dumb.
It sucks that she hide that from you but i think you can work on this and come off as a better couple, however she needs to put in the effort you can't bail her out of this debt by yourself.
She doesn’t have a job yet but I’m helping her build a resume for a job at Best Buy
that's nice, i imagine the talk went well
It's a betrayal of trust. Treat it like you would treat cheating.
Emotionally I wouldn’t see it the same as cheating, rather Gambling addiction, not even drugs/alcohol but there is an addiction angle to a lot of this. Treat it like she spent 9000$ on the slots, basically what she did. She needs help OP, you gotta kinda gage if you’re willing to be her partner in life and take steps to help her thru this or you two need to discuss a way apart from each other. Because you will be married and therefor financially tied, this kinda shit has to be worked out if you’ll be married the rest of your life. I won’t be as rash as just saying dump her right now, but you definitely have some stuff to work out before your wedding … also don’t ever show her drugs
Allow me to expand on what I mean. The way I see it, his partner has been stealing from the family bank account. Cheating and stealing are both breaches of trust with potentially serious consequences. But I don't mean to imply that they are exactly the same.
Given the seriousness of these situations, once it happens you have to consider whether you will stay with this person. If you stay with them, how can your partner regain your trust and prevent a relapse? Are you willing to stay in the relationship if this happens again? These are difficult questions that only OP can answer; in other words, both leaving and staying are justified (as is the case when your partner cheats on you).
Is this the first time something like this happened? Did she not know what klarna is? It feels pretty baseline to understand that “pay later” still means you pay the shit and almost always means you pay more.
Loving someone gives you a high tolerance for their stupidity/lack of awareness but damn don’t tell her what kalshi is.
She mentioned Kalshi before because her uncle is a Vegas bookie and he kept talking about it when she went to NV for a family get together. He’s a bad influence I hope he hasn’t got her hooked on kalshis
Why dont you have separate accounts?
Because we need to share the savings account because we both put money into it
nah it's chill
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