motherfuckers acting like those laptops aren't five hundred bajillion dollars
Exactly, my last laptop was around €750 but I remember looking for a similar (in terms of performance) Framework laptop and it was around €1200 if I remember correctly, not an insignificant difference for a student.
I was really determined to get one, partially because I love the cotton candy pink, don't judge. But now that memory and ram prices went up, it went from a premium price to absolutely insane. I'm just gonna stick with my old thinkpad another decade or so at this rate.
The article is clanker slop. It's mostly reiterative, a clear sign of clanker slop. Clankers are reiterative in their slop. A lot of clanker slop is reiterative.
That's an excellent point, and you're right to push back on this. Let me make an honest evaluation of the situation.
Not all reiterative spamlike garbage is clanker slop. Some of it is deliberately written to prioritize SEO over respecting the reader or producing anything of quality. Either way thanks for giving me the heads-up not to give them any of my time.
AKA some of it is meatslop
Almost nobody is willing to buy one
repairability enthusiasts have bought Framework laptops in the hundreds of thousands
Pick a lane there, XDA...
They even mention how the point is to buy the whole laptop once and then upgrade or repair it, instead of buying an entirely new laptop. Of course they're selling fewer laptops than anyone making mediocre netbooks
But that’s not that easily quantifiable so it’s bad /s
MBAs in a nutshell
Just want to say, I bought a framework 13 and it's fantastic. Been running arch off of it for two years and it's been a workhorse.
It was expensive comparable to a similar specced PC at the time but I make enough to vote with my wallet so that's what I did. I think anyone who has the money but doesn't, simply because there's a better deal that's worse for the environment and the makers of the item, while holding a right to repair or anti-corporate mindset are hypocritical at best.
The world gets better if we make it that way, and I see buying a framework (if you have the extra money) as a small step in a better direction.
Who would have thought a more expensive, more premium product would have a hard time finding customers during a time when people are struggling to pay bills and cant even afford the non-existent dollar menu at mcdonalds anymore.
Thing is, they feel decidedly less premium (while sure as fuck being more expensive), which doesn’t help the case
and lets face it, by the time its out of warranty and old enough to need any kind of easy repair.. the replacement parts are probably gonna cost as much as a newer, much more up to date laptop from another company.
Which is inherently the problem with repair ability in general.
I run into the same problem with cellphones.. I could replace the battery in mine and run it for another 6 years, or I could get a much newer (used) phone for the same price, and end up with a almost 100% new battery AND much better hardware.
but parts will never be made cheap enough to be reasonable and affordable, because people will just buy the parts and assemble the product themselves. So parts have to be at least as expensive as buying the new thing, if not more expensive, to discourage the act itself.
I'm increasingly comfortable being in n the almost nobody category. You should be too, after all almost nobody uses Lemmy.
Yes, pretend it's something wrong with the right idea (a repairable /upgradable device) and not the fact that America took a giant, wet trump all over the entire economy and a combo meal at mcdonalds is $16 with a small, non-refillabke drink and everything else is exponentially fucked from there.
Give us a reasonable pre-trump PC market, with this being a slight premium above that, do projections to normalize cost of ownership over say 10 years and it would grow. But we live here, so no.
If I were god king of (USA/Europe/Asia...the Universe), I would subsidize repairable laptops. It would save resources in the long run, for both humanity and the planet.
I want one real, real bad. But buying anything with RAM and SSDs in it right now is off the table.
I also want a Steam Machine and an AM5 based desktop. Also not gonna happen.
Honestly if the average person can’t buy it at Best Buy or Target, they won’t. Most people don’t know about this stuff.
Wherever a random coworker or family member asks me which of two laptops to buy, it’s always between a couple of prebuilt machine at a big box retailer.
I love the idea of Framework myself, but I can’t afford to buy one.
Too niche for the average buyer, too expensive for the rest of us.
I haven't needed to buy a laptop since the company existed. If I did they'd be a strong contender
So it's not serving the bottom-feeder market for effectively disposable Windows laptops.
Why should it need to? Serving a niche interest is perfectly valid as long as you're making enough money at it to be self-supporting. Despite what the line-go-up-at-all-costs advocates think.
I have bought and returned 2 framework laptops. They are repairable but they are also questionable build quality.
The screen on the Framework 12 is very subpar and the size and weight throw it out of being a light laptop.
Despite saying how good Linux support was running NixOS on the replacement Framwork 13 was not great either. Wireless drops and countless reports of drops on their forums with zero responses or workarounds. Most people buy replacement wireless adapters cause the one Framework ships just doesn't work.
On top of that the laptop just feel cheap with a steep price. I have hope for the new Pro, but we'll have to see if it's any good because so far I am pretty dissapointed with Framework.
I think they're just too expensive. It might be worth it in the long run, but a lot of people can't justify the up front cost.
Honestly, why would I spend thousands on a framework, when I can spend 3x less or more, with a used thinkpad, that is already fairly repairable?
If I was rich, sure, I'd buy a framework in a heartbeat, but am not rich, yet . . . . . . .
I have a framework 13. Last week I noticed my battery had gone spicy pillow. Screwed it open, removed the battery and ordered a new one. A few days later I got the new battery, put it in and screwed everything back together. Took me less than 30 minutes in total, got original parts and not some sketchy Amazon crap, was less complicated than repairing my desktop PC. This is how you do repairable tech.
I would love to have a Framework laptop. Those things are awesome as hell.
Unfortunately, my very old laptop that I've torn down and repaired over a dozen times is still kicking. And spending $100 to fix it is cheaper than spending a gazillion dollars on a new Framework.
Framework is great, but it's just so insanely expensive.
I was buying a new laptop about 2 years ago. A framework one cost more than twice the price of a regular ultrabook with comparable (but better) specs.
Sure, you pay more for a Framework, and you can upgrade it later instead of buying a new laptop. Makes sense, but even then - a Framework one is more expensive than 2 laptops with similar specs. It only gets cheaper on the third upgrade. Which for me may be 10 years away.
Personally I'm not thrilled about investing in a laptop that will pay off in a decade. Who knows what laptops will be like by that time. Hell, it's not unconceivable that devices like Framework will be outlawed. Or that Framework goes out of business.
It might make sense for people who upgrade often, but I don't. Or for people who don't, but are wealthy enough to pay the premium anyway. If anything, I feel like having a Framework would make me want to upgrade more often, which would be a waste of money.
Or that Framework goes out of business.
Even if they do, they use mostly off-the-shelf components, and the designs for the stuff that isn't are open-sourced. You can still repair them even if Framework doesn't exist.
They are expensive up front. I have one of the first 11th generation Intel ones. I bought a new CPU fan last year instead of getting a new laptop. One of my kids dropped it, and I'll need a new screen for it here soon.
Instead of buying 3 laptops, I bought 1 and repaired it. Super worth it.
This is rage bait
This proves that making a product twice as expensive actually does decrease sales significantly if you aren't Apple.
This may seem weird but I dislike the aspect ratio of their screens.
I have a desktop with 16:9 monitors and a laptop with 16:10.
Those are close enough that your workflow doesn't really change. But 2:3 is different enough it makes a difference.
That and for what they are they're crazy expensive. So I went for a Slimbook (kinda the Spanish version of Tuxedo). They're not perfect but I found them "good enough".
I* want* to buy one. But:
The idea of repairable notebooks sound good, except it's done by getting filtered through the tech bro lens. Still an ultrabook, the ports must be interchangeable modules to amaze the investors/users.
I can't afford that kind of money on a laptop!
I'm a Linux nerd FFS... I've never owned a new laptop in my life!
I like the idea of owning one. Then I see the prices and I compare them with the prices of refurbished ThinkPads... (No, I don't need a new laptop)
I own one 🤷♂️ they’re expensive but I’d recommend em nonetheless
I wanted to buy one, but they are veeery expensive, almost twice for a similarly specd laptop. Plus thet don't offer OLED screens.
Lmk when they're corebooted.
Otherwise I'll stick with system76 or starlabs.
They value a laptop that excels at providing value for money, a compact design, battery life, and brand familiarity.
Value for money on what timescale? Most seem to only think about the price vs the functionality a few days after purchase. Longer term, the ability to upgrade and repair components instead of pitching the whole thing would be higher value for money, but that's not how most consumers think.
A compact design is nice, but not the be-all-end-all if Framework can get in a reasonable size/weight range.
Battery life is an oxymoron here... the main issue I have with laptop battery life is after a few years of use it dwindles, eventually to zero. When the battery isn't replaceable, or is a proprietary form factor which costs nearly as much as a new laptop - that results in horrible battery life and value for money performance, but does generate new unit sales for non-repairable laptops.
TLDR: Fuck "AI"
I was in the market for a 14'' work laptop and I so DESPERATELY wanted to buy a Framework but I couldn't thanks to a combination of all the AI bullshit driving up memory prices, Framework still being on the Series 1 Intel Ultra chips, and their global availability not quite being there (this bit is understandable for a relatively new company). I ended up buying a base 14'' MacBook Pro M5 even though I wanted to stay on Linux simply because it was the only thing with good perf, crazy good battery, and good build quality that was priced semi-reasonably even though it's on the opposite end of the repairability spectrum.
Even now a comparable Framework (Intel Ultra X7 358H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD) costs ~$150 more than what I paid for my Mac, assuming I can even get it shipped to where I am, and the regional pricing/taxes doesn't push the price higher. Kinda crazy because it's on the more reasonable side of things if memory serves. Dell XPS costs even more.
I hope this memory crisis gets sorted because I never thought I'd see the day that Apple became the budget option. Maybe I'll sell my Mac and get a Framework then because as much as I love using the Mac, I still hate being at Apple's mercy if anything breaks or if I need an upgrade.
My Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th Gen is quite repairable thank you very much, and it was like 400 bucks, and it comes with an i7, 16gb of ram, and a 256gb ssd. It's only marketing that has people convinced they will fall behind unless they have the latest and greatest.
How much? With what money?
Come now, these products that cost 3x what they should don't get to claim it did not work out due to lack of demand. No one has pissing away money anymore and products made for some odd not rich but well off tech people is just not going to happen.
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
