I went to see to compare against a Thinkpad (E14).

Framework Laptop 13: $1140 for the Ultra 5 125H, 8GB, 256GB Lenovo E15: $1120 for the Ultra 5 225u 16GB, 256GB

Lenovo price is a "sale" on their site off the "list price" of $1340

Framework wins:

• The H series processor is superior to the U series, even if older model -More custo options in general - eg I can choose 16gb in 1 stick vs 2 sticks, or I can choose "none" (also for SSD) -I can choose No OS and save some money there

Framework loses: No Core 5 in stock. I don't need a 7, that's $2-300 I don't need to spend

Framework Neutral: No 256SSD in stock. But I do have the option to get no SSD and just buy my own. Arguably a win for me but not ideal for some

I'm unclear if Laptop 13 is the correct comparison vs a Laptop 13 Pro. The E14 is a mid-tier pro model, not a top of the line, which is where I tend to chill with laptops since they're not my dailies anyway).

Anyway, as someone shopping for a laptop, I see that prices are the same. Given this, Framework wins.

HOWEVER: If I was actually shopping for a laptop, I would buy a used older-model E14 on Ebay for say $400. I know it would last, they're repairable, and for the cost I could buy spare parts now. Because this is a secondary (1/week) device for me, I wouldn't spend $1100 on a laptop in general. Not when Thinkpads are ppossibly the next-most-repairable laptop out there.

Ultimate calculus - Framework isn't for me. Yet.

Now, if I had the money for activism? Sure, let's get more of these into the 2nd hand market, stop the waste. Or no second hand market at all, just upgrade like a Desktop.

At some point, I may have no need for a desktop. At that point, $1100 for a primary PC is a good price, esp if I can build on it. If I was a laptop user, me who like custo and upgradeability - Framework is a fair value, good price even.

Anyway, to the point of the comment chain above me, I would say it's a 1:1 price. If you're shopping in that spec range anyway. If you need lower spec than Core Ultra 5H, say Ultra/Ryzen 3U, Framework doesn't target that audience - and neither do quality [major] OEMs (you might find a great sale somewhere of course). But basically a well-built mid-tier laptop just costs $1000-$1200 new these days (I'd have said $800-$1000 before the price hikes recently).

The cheapest 32 GB + 1 TB + 1 HDMI + 1 USB A + 2 USB C + Charger + Windows 11 model I found is the Framework 12, which has a slower CPU than my actual laptop. Those specs costs $1400 USD, shipping to my country would cost some extra $100 USD. I bought my Lenovo laptop with those + OLED display for $900 + shipping. Fair, is not double the price, but also far more than $150 USD.