art isn't a problem that needs solving
People always seem to think that when art takes a long time to make, speeding up creation so less manhours are required somehow makes it better.
I really would argue the opposite. What I've noticed with all sorts of art forms, from digital to stop-motion animation, to writing and painting, is that the best shit is something where the artist agonised over every last detail, and made every second full of meaning and thought and a thought-out backstory. I think the best art in history has always needed that.
The big issue with AI is that it makes the illusion of said detail, but it's all actually shallow and meaningless. You can make something pleasing to the eye at the times, but we are ushering yet another renewal of the modern artistic era which is "look how much of this seemingly hard thing we pooped out, therefore it must be good and meaningful!", rather than actually valuing deep and thought out media, 'flashy' is all we're told we need to care about.
The big issue with AI is that it makes the illusion of said detail, but it's all actually shallow and meaningless. You can make something pleasing to the eye at the times, but we are ushering yet another renewal of the modern artistic era which is "look how much of this seemingly hard thing we pooped out, therefore it must be good and meaningful!", rather than actually valuing deep and thought out media, 'flashy' is all we're told we need to care about.
It reminds me of all the clip art (that is, generic illustrations that you would buy by the sheet and literally clip and stick on your design) that low-budget ad agencies or small businesses used to mimic the eye-catching graphics of much more expensive ad campaigns. It has very little cultural impact and it's transparently commercial, even more so than the magazine ads or illustrations that people are nostalgic for now.
Clip art is actually kind of the perfect analogy. Yeah you can make very readily make a few eye catching things, and that's about the limit.
Without an unfathomable amount of human input, you're not going to make many engaging pieces of art with clip art, same goes for AI.
Michaelangelo spent the better part of a year working on the Sistine Chapel. He often worked 16-hour days. IIRC at one point, he had some kind of foot illness that rotted his boots because he was standing in them for long periods of time, then falling asleep on the scaffolding without bothering to come down. It was well over 3,000 hours of work to do the whole ceiling.
The better part of a year is a fucking speedrun for something like that. Damn. I totally get it though, I have stayed up all night working on art stuff because I hit a really good groove and when you're in that zone you gotta squeeze it for all its worth and taking more than a small break will kill your momentum. My brain isnt gonna be able to get into the exact same mood tomorrow. When those times hit, you take advantage.
When I do arts n crafts i'm not doing thankless labor to get a finished product. I LIKE the process, it is fun to me. I think they fundamentally misunderstand how art works. People arent born good at it and decide they're going to paint a masterpiece, usually they just fuck around with paint for decades and eventually stuff starts coming out really good. I have never really planned my end result and tend to be super spontaneous. This is because I have developed a lot of technical skills since I was a toddler and can incorporate on impulse, most of the time it turns out better than I'd hoped for and the rest of the times ive learned what doesnt work, which is even more important. I didnt do all of this cause im disciplined, it's just something I enjoy so i kept doing it. There are aspects of agonizing over things, but it's enjoyable agonizing. There is plenty of art I enjoy where they were clearly just trying to have fun and whatever came of it was it. But you have to be decent enough in the first place at something to make something half assed seem fun to others, I think something like Aqua Teen would fall into that category.
The more I learn about AI, the more worthless it reveals itself to be. This video looks like shit but would work as a starting point. If it can't be truly edited, then this is just nothing.
downdooted to hell. the only good comment in the thread. it's not animation and it can't be edited, so it's effectively worthless. you want to change a small detail, adjust something? no, you have to start over with the random generator. it doesn't output anything except the video file.
replies are like "me when i don't understand this magic tool" "ackshually you can edit it, just make another prompt" "achsually in the future maybe chatgpt will generate animation files and who's laughing then"
just makes it more clear that anyone who likes to use "ai" "tools" needs reeducation on a fundamental level (and that all datacenters need to burn)
I knew AI animation didn't use props, background, foreground, etc. and was generating each frame in its entirety. I didn't realize it was also not really generating the actual frames L M A O
compressing a stack of stills into a video file is too much technical work for the ai heads
The first part of re-education will have them watch a data center burn down
It's like the inversion of the alleged Einstein quote, that 'm*dness'* is trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result, the AI hype crew are equally as deluded in thinking that they can give their slip generator the same input and expect the same output. It won't. It will generate something different every time like some skinner box. You can't 'tweak' your model or your prompts
*Apologies to comrades who find the term abelist, i am quoting it in the format it is commonly repeated. I also disagree with the apocryphal quote because quantity and repetition is its own quality that's why we train and practice

Doesn't content like this literally only exist because the stuff it's stealing from also exists?
"writing is solved! *smashes autocomplete*"
I don't know why there was such a furore about Einstein "inventing" general relativity. He could've just learned it in school like I did. Can't be any value to his way of thinking.
Static background, static camera, the blue energy poof looked like shit. Once again proving that AI bros are operating entirely on a vibes-level.
Also some choice classism in the comments.
This is why i didn't support the writers strike a few years ago. Writers were rushing out terrible script after terrible script for shows that should have been slam dunks like Halo or Witcher.
Yes it’s those lazy writers’ fault for shitty scripts, pay no attention to the executives that approve the scripts, give direction, and set the schedules that require the writers to rush the scripts.
Static background
And it still fucked up the consistency of the skyline too.
I can maybe see it being useful for storyboarding, but 98% of film making is the details. You see these behind the scenes things where the team is like "yeah, so we had this shot that required this camera motion that was physically impossible, so we created this whole software pipeline and invented a new type of camera rig, then they ended up cutting this scene".
That’s the point.
The industry never had this level of real competition and democratization before.
Once high-end production becomes accessible to everyone, the real differentiator becomes the script, direction, and creative vision.
Just wait until this guy gets his first non-subsidized inference bill lol
Democratisation among who?
The people with actual motivation to improve at a craft are already applying themselves to practice. They are artists, writers, film makers, developers, etc. They're actually making and improving at something already and most of them are repulsed by AI, even among developers there's a derogatory attitude to "vibe coding".
Democratisation only means giving the ability to make shit to the laziest people, the people who have spent their whole lives too lazy to sit down and do the work necessary to get good at something. These people aren't going to be good writers, because they don't apply themselves to writing. They don't apply themselves to anything. They do not have the motivation.
So all it's really doing is giving the power to make this shit to the least talented and least motivated people. All the motivated people are already doing something with their motivation. They're already making art with their hands.
This magical "talent" that they think is a biological phenomenon that just exists in people is actually years and years of work and improvement through practice, in all arts.
Fr. None of this is an innate talent. It's a skill. I can draw well cause I did it for like 5 hours a day from age 3 to 14, that is because it's what I liked doing. I had no ambitions and as a younger kid didnt see the value in a finished drawing. I would just throw everything out that I drew when I was done. This confused the hell out of my parents who asked if there were ones I wanted to keep or whatever. I hadnt even considered that. I just liked drawing and when the paper was full I threw it out and got a new sheet. My folks also to this day dont get that art isnt easy to anyone when they firsr pick it up. My family was amazed I could draw and play music because 'no one in this family has been able to draw anything more than a stick figure and we cant carry a tune in a bucket.' Like it was a genetic trait. The difference was that when they noticed i was drawing a lot as a toddler, my mom stole stacks of printer paper from work and later they got me a cozy desk for my room. Im in my mid 30s and they'll still buy me a gunpla here and there cause they're stoked ive gotten into model building. They've bankrolled many of my endeavors very enthusiastically. But they still never really have internalized that it's because I practice and enjoy practicing this stuff that im good at it. My dad is willing to song along to songs but will deride his singing voice for no reason, its actually pretty solid for like rock music and stuff, both of us are really good at impressions and have good vocal control, I taught myself how to sing by recording myself and correcting what sounded wrong. My natural voice when singing good is a lot higher than my speaking voice so full singing I am a worse Davey havoc, talk singing i sound like Rozz Williams. I can also do a perfect Lemmy, and any kinda screamy vocals super easy aside from pig squeals. Just like...learn the thing. If you arent willing to do that, then you dont get to make stuff.
Its like the bullshit left/right brained thing. It's fatalistic and stops people from trying and also it's a bit insulting to have your work chalked up to inherent talent and not learned skill.
I can draw well cause I did it for like 5 hours a day from age 3 to 14, that is because it's what I liked doing.
This is exactly what I'm trying to get across. The "talent" people apply to any of these arts is actually the product of hundreds if not thousands of hours spent practicing and improving at it.
it's because I practice and enjoy practicing this stuff that im good at it
I am convinced people do realise that this is the case but that making talent into some innate thing is a coping mechanism for feelings of inadequacy surrounding not being able to motivate themselves to do the same. The thing is that I don't think anyone should feel inadequate about this. I am a literal god when it comes to Smash Bros, playing at an extremely high genuine competition level. I have this ability because I have motivation for it, I can sit and practice it and feel motivated to do that. But even at times I'm like "cba" when it comes to the sheer number of hours I'd need to put in just to beat 1 more person who is above me. My progress in this skill and whether I could ever reach top 100 is ultimately hampered by motivation, even at this level. It's all practice. None of it is innate talent. I probably won't reach that level, but I fully understand and take responsibility for the fact that it's because I won't put the practice in, my motivation wall has likely been met. The point is that this is no different for sports, or music, or arts.
I'd quite like to have the motivation to draw, I am reasonably good at it having learned several techniques when younger. But I don't have anywhere near the motivation I do for competitive fighting games. Same story really. Motivation.
But that's ok. It doesn't make us inadequate and I'm not calling anyone inadequate for it. We all have different interests.
Do you have any smash footage online? I losr my music gundam models and art sll the time and i agree a good game of smash is an art. I cant do competitive smash but I know what is happening when I watch it. Id love to see how you play. I appreciate good smash
Yes but it would 110% dox me instantly because of events.
Womp womp.
I love Melee and got it with a game.ecuve when it came out, it was the first thing I had saved up serious allowance money to buy as a kid. I didn't touch my 5 bucks a week for 2 years, my parents handled the rest cause they game as well. I never got tournament gud, im just at that barrier. I would love to be really good at smash cause I love the game but practicing it never really clicked with me and id rather spend my time elsewhere, so to this day I wish I was better at smash but also know I dont wanna put the work in. As a result I have gotten comfortable with only ever being okay at it. That's fine. There is no shame in not wanting to put the work into getting really good at something but its sour grapes to say someone is just a natural talent. I follow speedrunners and like to bear personal bests on games I play, but I know ill never be able to compete cause i just don't like doing it quite as much as the people who are really good. Thats fine. People latch onto different things amd almost everyone wishes they were better at something theyre bad at. You wither gotta try to get better or accept mediocrity, and mediocrity is perfectly okay. Id rather people do stuff they like doing and suck at it then be good at something they hate. AI ignores all of this because it is only art because my definition of art literally anything produced that doesnt serve a purely utilitarian function. So even a hammer is art if it has a colored handle or something. AI does technically cross thst criteria, I hate to call it art but if it does barely cross that line. But it is bad art. Awful art. The worst art I could conceive of and that is no matter how nice it may look. Its bad art because of the medium. The medium is the message. It is useless, its bad and it stinks
My biggest gripe with the “democratization” argument for AI is that we were already had a mass democratization of creative media. E-readers make self-publishing a breeze, Billie Eilish and Finneas proved you can make a hit record in your bedroom with some cheap to free plugins, plenty of free image editing and rendering software, you can get a drawing tablet for next to nothing. Not to mention the countless free tutorials out there mean the knowledge barrier isn’t there anymore.
I don't like this line of argumentation - it's essentially neoliberal. It has echos of - "Socialism means giving money to the laziest people, the people who have spent their whole lives too lazy to sit down and do the work necessary to get good at something."
But this erases the material conditions that determine so much of our lives.
In reality, sometimes, people don't have the years and years of free time they need to do the work. Sometimes they don't have the resources or teachers to learn from, don't have the tools they need to hone their skills, don't have a safe environment where they can learn and grow, or their fucking psychiatrist won't give them fucking ADHD medication because a parent got hooked on meth (I'm not bitter), or they were dysphoric for so long that their depression atrophied all of their talents (definitely not bitter)
Motivation, itself, isn't a choice. It's just something that happens to you. You just got lucky by having a brain that works.
There's some truth to their complaining about the unfairness of talent. We make our own talent, but we do not make it as we please.
I don't see how rephrasing things changes much. The situation is still that the people who gain the power to make shit are unmotivated people with no actual skill in the art. They don't magically make good content now that they have AI because they are still unmotivated people with no actual skill and giving them AI doesn't change that. They still require thousands upon thousands of hours of practice to understand and improve in the skill of writing to actually form a decent script, and if they really had such motivation for writing they would be putting it to use and practice without the AI.
You just got lucky by having a brain that works.
I disagree. It's about having a brain that is interested in it, or having parents that can pay a tutor to whack a child's hands with a ruler every time they don't focus on the piano keys but that's a different kind of motivation through force. Real genuine motivation comes from interest, it stops being work and it is basically play for that brain. Not that this changes anything, interest and "brain that works" are still ultimately the same thing in practice, just different interpretations of the mechanism. I think what you're trying to suggest though is wrong, neurotypical people struggle with the motivational requirement to become artists as much as neurodivergent people, their brains still work, they just want to play instead of doing what they perceive as work because the interest isn't there. It's a little spark that makes the art activity into something as fulfilling and enjoyable as playing the videogame is for everyone else.
I take adhd meds too. They don't fix motivation, merely focus.
Depression, notably, saps all interest in doing anything. Interest isn't a choice either, it's just something that happens to you.
Or doesn't.
There is a fundamental unfairness to talent that I just don't think you're acknowledging.
What I do agree with is that AI isn't some instant-win cheat code to making great art. If they lack the interest, the motivation, to put in the work then their AI slop is only ever going to be slop. Though, maybe, they won't have to put in quite as many thousands of hours. It can be like the difference between being talented with hand sewing vs being talented with a sewing machine. Making a beautiful dress requires hard work whether you do it by hand or with a machine, but it's certainly a lot easier and faster with a machine.
Also, executive function disorder is hell. It doesn't matter if you have interests and want to do things. You just don't do them, and hate yourself for it.
I don't see what there is to acknowledge here? The argument is semantics, we're saying the exact same ultimate thing in terms of outcomes. Every point I've made about AI remains the same. These people still remain bad at creating because they do not practice and improve due to their lack of "talent" as you put it, I feel that I put in the much friendlier terms by saying it is lack of practice due to motivation and I very much dislike this "talent" shit because it feels like bioessentialism.
It doesn't matter which wording is used here either way, the outcome is literally the same, a bunch of hacks being given AI doesn't produce good content. The people with the "talent" to improve are already producing content and improving their skills without it.
I dont see how AI makes any if this better
I am having a rainy arts and crafts day after a busy yesterday of working in fancy restaurant on mother's day. I am building models and painting display stuff for ones ive already built. It is fun and relaxing. I do some painting and then do some building while the paint dries and im watching movies at the same time. Its a good day. At the end of the day, putting in prompts for an AI all day instead would probably kill my soul. Making art is fun. This tskes away the fun part. I made a post earlier in the thread that as a toddler I just filled a page with drawings and then threw it out and started the next. My parents had to tell me that I should be saving the good ones which implies I should be trying to make a good one each time, at 34 I can say they were wrong as hell. The finished product is a brief moment of moderate satisfaction cause you will always see the flaws no one else will. The best part is making the damn thing. I am altering the real world to match or express my imagination as best as I can. AI can never ever do that. I like digital art and like playing with it, but even that feels a bit removed from real tangible stuff for me. Photoshop is fun, editing film and music digitally is just way easier, but I have done the analogue version of both and theyre a lot more fun. It stinks.
Yeah, we should create a society where that isnt the case. Until then you do what you can with what you have. You dont need ai to make art. The barrier to entry there is a lot more than paper and pencil. Anyone can make art. You maybe cant make a Pixar movie yourself but no one can. That's why they hired people.
That's my workflow as well. It's pretty remarkable I created a kids show. 5 episodes so far. https://youtu.be/GeAHB3YQcq8 I also voice over so the voices are natural and consistent. But video is great

I stomached one minute of that...
Jesus Christ it's the worst
Holy shit yeah, it's like the most soulless crap you can think of. It's supposedly "stop motion" but no mention of actually being AI generated (so decidedly not stop motion). The voices don't really match with the characters, and the animation seems incredibly stilted, when it isn't simply forgetting to add half the bubbles to a scene. Also the "creator" has no idea what a transition scene is, with every scene ending by cutting to pure black for 5 seconds before the next scene begins.
The race will be about who has the best script.
love that the video in question shows how a script cannot be followed by AI (overlapping/converging voices). like even if this particular quirk is solved then it still won't be about the script. it will be about whoever can mangle the generator using whatever tools are available to create consistent plots and characters. whether or not your writing can even be represented as an AI generated movie will be decided by how the technology works.
it reminds me of the old machinimas. people are going to create endearing content, i'm sure, just like they did using video game engines. but this content will be restricted to whatever the AI is capable of. If the AI generated movie isn't about, in some way, AI generation itself, the medium instantly falls apart.
What I hate the most about AI video generation is that it's very good at all the wrong things while being so random and uncontrollable as to be functionally useless. It can literally only make janky vapid slop and every improvement it gets only makes the problem more pronounced because it becomes more detailed and less glaring-error-prone without fixing the core problems that make it useless.
And the short in that post is like the ideal scenario for covering up those flaws, too: non-human characters with busy but uniform details no one can really pay too close attention to, that are always viewed from the front, and that remain in place while making overly exaggerated movements. And it still looks like ass with noticeable errors that literally cannot be corrected since the "creator" is just pulling a gacha lever over and over.
The bad animation can also be solved by hiring good animators
God the people in the comments are so fucking dumb it hurts. They're all "ideas guys" who are certain that if only they could bring their creative vision to life they'd all be famous trillionaire writers and directors, but alas they just don't have the money to pay an animation studio. They dont realize that there are billions of "ideas guys" out there and that being an "ideas guy" is utterly worthless, and that the thing which ultimately sets the likes of Pixar apart from their talentless selves is that Pixar has artists with exceptional levels of skill at the technical aspects of their craft
What they don't show you is the thousands of ass results and burned natural resources that came before this one pretty good shot.
ai evangelism is like this meme

but the image is "the most cringe thing ever"
They hoot and gibber every day about how AI will soon be churning out the next film/game/killer app. But it never will. It will only ever produce slop. Anyone who has ever created anything will understand why...
Animation was unsolved?
They keep having to pay these damn animators and writers, it's a real obstacle in the way of profit that needs to be solved.
Pixar is leagues better than this. This is budget shit
at 800 bucks, it's probably lower price than cgi tbh, even at likely real price of 2k still cheaper, rendering runs at what, 5-10 million per movie, depending on hair particles?
piece of shit render farm with thousands of xeons/quadros is exact same type of data center as ai, power hungry monsters (as compared to data centers), just smaller in scale
Slop.
For posting all the anonymous reactionary bullshit that you can't post anywhere else.
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