this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 143 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (10 children)

my website's backend is made with bash, it calls make for every request and it probably has hundreds of remote arbitrary code execution bugs that will get me pwned someday, it's great

edit: to clarify, it uses a rust program i made to expose the bash scripts as http endpoints, i'm not crazy enough to implement http in bash

it behaves like a static file server, but if a file has the others-execute permission bit set it executes the file instead of reading it

it's surprisingly nice for prototyping since you can just write a cli program and it's automatically available over http too

[–] [email protected] 81 points 11 months ago

For my own sanity, I choose to believe you're lying

[–] [email protected] 74 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago

These wounds appear to be self-inflicted.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

i thought it was neat how php lets you write your website's logic with the same directory tree pattern that clients consume it from, but i didn't want to learn php so i made my own, worse version

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

That’s a pretty reasonable reaction to the proposition of learning PHP.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I pity the hacker who ends up in your system

[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago

You live like this?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've taken some precautions, it's running in a container as an unprivileged user and the only writable mount is the directory where make writes rendered pages, but i probably should move it into a vm if i want to be completely safe lol

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Maybe I'll finally move it into a VM so I can send a link to it here without tempting people :P

[–] bdonvr 50 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I designed a chip architecture that runs bash code on silicon.

I reimplemented x86 assembly in purely bash script.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago
[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago

Set -e, please for the love of god, set -e

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[–] [email protected] 121 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Before nginx was a thing, I worked with a guy who forked apache httpd and wrote this blog in C, like, literally embedded html and css inside the server, so when he made a tpyo or was adding another post he had to recompile the source code. The performance was out of this world.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

There are a lot of solutions like that in rust. You basically compile the template into your code.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

yeah, templates can be parsed at compile time but these frameworks are not embeeding whole fucking prerendered static pages/assets

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

They are nowadays. Compiling assets and static data into rust and deliver virtual DOM via websocket to the browser is the new cool kid in the corner.

Have a look at dioxus

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Does a file lookup really take that long? Id say the trick was to have just plain old html with no bloat and you're golden.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Blog content was stored in memory and it was served with zero-copy to the socket, so yea, it's way faster. It was before times of php-fpm and opcache that we're using now. Back then things were deployed and communicated using tcp sockets (tcp to rails, django or php) or reading from a disk, when the best HDDs were 5600rpm, but rare to find on shared hosting.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Couldn't the html be loaded into memory at the beginning of the program and then served whenever? I understand the reading from disk will be slow, but that only happens once in the beginning.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

The answer is no. The more file is used the longer it sits in kernel filesystem cache. Getting file from cache versus having it in process memory is few function calls away all of which takes few microseconds. Which is negligible in comparison to network latency and other small issues that might be present in the code.

On few of our services we decided to store client configuration in JSON files on purpose instead of running with some sort of database storage. Accessing config is insanely fast and kernel makes sure that file is cached so when reading the file you always get fast and latest version. That service is currently handling around 100k requests a day, but we've had peaks in past that went up to almost a million requests a day.

Besides when it comes to human interaction and web sites you only need to get first contentful paint within one second. Anything above 1.5s will feel sluggish, but below 1s, it feels instant. That gives you on average around 800ms to send data back. Plenty of time unless you have a dependency nightmare and parse everything all the time.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

This reminds me of one of my older projects. I wanted to learn more about network communications, so I started working on a simple P2P chat app. It wasn't anything fancy, but I really enjoyed working on it. One challenge I faced was that, at the time, I didn't know how to listen for user input while handling network communication simultaneously. So, after I had managed to get multiple TCP sockets working on one thread, I thought, why not open another socket for HTTP communication? That way, I could incorporate a fancy web UI instead of just a CLI interface.

So, I wrote a simple HTTP server, which, in hindsight, might not have been necessary.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 73 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What if, get this, we put the bash scripts in yaml. And then put it in kubernetes.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 11 months ago (1 children)

well now you’re just describing ansible

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

Very, very bad Ansible.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Have you considered embedding python in those bash scripts? I have done this, and it is glorious.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I wrote my webserver in pure bash.

bash -c "python -m http.server 8080"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Did you know you can zip entire Python project into single file and make it executable? Quite a neat feature. Shove all dependencies, modules and assets in there and voila. Single file python application.

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[–] [email protected] 65 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This is false, you also need vim and tmux

[–] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Idk about you but I use echo and sed to edit my files.

[–] [email protected] 69 points 11 months ago

Let's just get this out of the way

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Microsoft Word is the only text editor I need.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I'm currently trying to relearn all my advanced bash in python.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

i already learned how to use my operating system, now you're telling me I have to learn 30 new libraries that do the exact same shit?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

no, you'll also have to learns each libraries special quirks on your OS

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Just don't call it with #!/bin/sh. Because that's POSIX shell, not bash.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

but effectively it's bash, I think /bin/sh is a symlink to bash on every system I know of...

Edit: I feel corrected, thanks for the information, all the systems I used, had a symlink to bash. Also it was not intended to recommend using bash functionality when having a shebang !#/bin/sh. As someone other pointed out, recommendation would be #!/usr/bin/env bash, or !#/bin/sh if you know that you're not using bash specific functionality.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Still don't do this. If you use bash specific syntax with this head, that's a bashism and causes issues with people using zsh for example. Or with Debian/*buntu, who use dash as init shell.

Just use #!/bin/bash or #!/usr/bin/env bash if you're funny.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (6 children)

#!/bin/bash doesn't work on NixOS since bash is in the nix store somewhere, #!/usr/bin/env bash resolves the correct location regardless of where bash is

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

No no no no no, do not believe this you will shoot yourself in the foot.

https://wiki.debian.org/Shell

Beginning with DebianSqueeze, Debian uses Dash as the target of the /bin/sh symlink. Dash lacks many of the features one would expect in an interactive shell, making it faster and more memory efficient than Bash.

From DebianSqueeze to DebianBullseye, it was possible to select bash as the target of the /bin/sh symlink (by running dpkg-reconfigure dash). As of DebianBookworm, this is no longer supported.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

It is a symlink, but bash will automatically enable posix compliance mode if you use it. So any bash specific features will bomb out unless you explicitly reset it in the script.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I feel like this with Python these days.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You're not at scale unless you're deploying OpenStack to run a WordPress site.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

All you need are Bash scripts with chroot and cgroups and some ssh access.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Never sed when you can bash.

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