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submitted 2 days ago by Ourst@lemmy.sdf.org to c/mop@quokk.au
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[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 26 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

As of 2017, the People's Republic of China has more state-owned enterprises (SOEs) than any other country, and the most SOEs among large national companies. As of the end of 2019, China's SOEs represented 4.5% of the global economy and the total assets of all China's SOEs, including those operating in the financial sector, reached US$78.08 trillion

State-owned enterprises accounted for over 60% of China's market capitalization in 2019

SOEs continue to support stability through providing employment and maintaining low prices for key economic inputs. SOEs spend much of their investment on infrastructure development in China's less developed interior provinces, and therefore also perform a redistributive role.

SOEs have monopolies in the industries of telecommunications, military equipment, railroads, tobacco, petroleum, and electric power. SOEs have a primary role in China's energy sector.

Most Chinese universities are SOEs.

SOEs are important to major government initiatives including the targeted poverty alleviation campaign, Made in China 2025, and the Belt and Road Initiative. China's SOEs are at the forefront of global seaport construction, and most new ports built by them are part of the BRI. State-owned banks are important sources of funding for port construction.

In addition to their own operations, SOEs invest in private enterprises. From the perspective of these private enterprises, this form of partial state ownership is helpful in obtaining financing from banks, particularly as prompts banks to require less collateral. Sometimes in investing in private enterprises, SOEs acquire enough shares to nationalize them. Over the period 2018–2020, 109 publicly traded enterprises with more than $100 billion in collective total assets were nationalized in this way

source

TLDR: The most important parts of the Chinese economy are fully state owned and many less important parts partly state owned. This allows the Chinese state to insure that the peoples' hard needs are met while allowing market forces to direct the distribution of soft needs. This is something the USSR really struggled to do and led to a fetishization of western material culture. Markets existed before capitalism and they will likely exist after, there is just no reason for them to be the basis of social organization.

You should start reading their 5-year plans and comparing it to where they are 5 years from that plan. They are open about their intentions and typically exceed their goals.

They are pushing for a less market driven economy as we speak and regularly treat their bourgeois in a way that indicates the ruling class is not capitalist.

[-] pivot_root@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago

How much say does the proletariat have in how those state owned enterprises are managed or operated, or into what their profits are put towards?

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Fuck if I know, I don't live there and I am not an expert. I can guarantee however, it is more say than you have over your economy. The CPC is a vast political organ with over 100 million active members. Most people are satisfied with it as well.

Are you a participating member of a political party that directly controls your national economy? Do you feel like your state encourages you to do so? Are you satisfied with the ones that exist?

[-] pivot_root@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

That's a lot of whataboutism and it doesn't really answer my question.

The CPC itself isn't Marxist. China, as a whole, is Marxist-Lenninist pending the final transitional stage where the new, benevolent ruling class dissolves itself and hands power back to the proletariat. It's been that way for decades.

And a state-owned enterprise isn't inherently communist; it's whatever the state is. If it's controlled by the state, and the state isn't classless, there needs to be full transparency in how the enterprise is operated. If the public has no say in its operations, a SOE is just a nationalized corporation executing on the whims of a ruling class—and that's closer to capitalist-socialist ideology than communist ideology.

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Hard to answer in concrete terms a question I don't know the answer to. Like I said I am not an expert in the organization of the CPC and the levels of democratic participation its members have. Instead of debating whether or not their system is capitalist, which we clearly have opinions on that aren't reconcilable through short internet argumentation, I asked you to compare the most basic features of their system to your own and decide which you considered more democratic (or more proletarian). I didn't want to spend the hours of research it would take to answer you question in full because I didn't and still do not consider it worth it.

I disagree with your statement that the CPC is not Marxist and considering their stated position is that they are, the burden of proof is on you here. I do consider them somewhat revisionist but considering their success and the size of their society I think its uncouth for me, a westerner from a country with 0 successful marxist projects to criticize them harshly. I take the wait and see approach. So far it has worked out. It doesn't make sense for a capitalist state to encourage democratic participation nor does it make sense for them to prioritize political education as China very clearly does. You can get a degree in marxist political economy, many Chinese people do this and as someone who has spoken about the subject with them, they understand it VERY well.

You should really read state and revolution if you haven't already. Your belief that marxism-leninism relies on the bureaucratic class dissolving itself and handing power back to the proletariat indicates that you have not or atleast didn't understand it.

capitalist-socialist ideology

This is a nonsense term

[-] LemmyBruceLeeMarvin@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 days ago

All of the commanding heights of the economy are owned and run by the state. Banks, electric power, heavy industry. 2008 economic collapse in the west didn't even touch China. 2 million dead in the US from COVID? Again barely hut China.

The west is so propagandized against China it's hilarious. Keep on losing, losers.

[-] Ourst@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 day ago

They literally welded people shut into their buildings. Far more than 2 million would have died in China but we will never know the figures because of how much the censor everything.

[-] GhostedIC@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago

Bro we all saw the videos of them just welding people into their apartments. "Covid barely hit China" (who's responsible for it) my ass.

[-] piccolo@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

2 million dead in the US from COVID? Again barely hut China.

Sure, if you use Trump's stratgey of not testing. Then it doesnt exist.

[-] socsa@piefed.social 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Um ackshually you cannot own property in China, You merely lease it from the communist party for 70 years.

[-] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 12 points 2 days ago
[-] guillem@aussie.zone 16 points 2 days ago

That site is strange or I need more coffee. It says 96 on top of the page but 90 further down. Also they calculated it by occupied home apparently, not by population? The homelessness rate is almost the same as the US's according to the same site.

[-] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 3 points 2 days ago

No idea, all the sources I can find either say 90 or 96 which is kind of a big difference. Either way thats much higher thsn the US at 65.6%

[-] PugJesus@piefed.social 7 points 2 days ago

96% of people own their home in China. I dont think many are paying rents.

That's curious, considering how widespread renting is in urban areas of China. Almost like the formal system of assigning people houses in their rural hometown but refusing to acknowledge their internal immigration makes for good numbers, but shit analysis.

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 days ago

A large portion of rent is also usually directly covered by your employer

[-] CubitOom@infosec.pub 4 points 2 days ago

You can't actually own land in the CCP's China, but you can lease the rights to the land for which a civilian residence is on for 70 years.

Personally I think this makes real estate investment a bad idea in China but a lot of people do it.

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 days ago

Making housing a non-accumulable resource is good actually. Houses are for living in not speculation

[-] ElectricAirship@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 days ago

I think treating housing like infrastructure rather than an investment is a good start to alleviating the issue

[-] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 6 points 2 days ago

The Chinese Constitution has also played a role in shaping the country's land management laws. The Constitution recognizes the right of citizens to own and use land, and it prohibits the unauthorized seizure of land. The Constitution also recognizes the right of the state to regulate land use and to protect the public interest.

Thats wild because their constitution says otherwise.

[-] CubitOom@infosec.pub 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You should read article 12 onward in Law of the People's Republic of China on the Administration of the Urban Real Estate

Article 20 and 22 is of specific interest here.

[-] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 3 points 2 days ago

Article 20 Before the term for the use of land specified in the contract for granting the land-use right expires, the State is not to recover the land-use right obtained by the land user in accordance with the law. Under special circumstances as required by public interests, the State may, in accordance with legal procedures, recover the land-use right before the expiration of the term and shall make appropriate compensation based on the number of years of utilization and the actual development of the land by the land user.

Article 21 The land-use right shall be terminated with loss of the land.

Article 22 Where the term for the use of land specified in the contract for granting the land-use right expires, and the land user needs to continue the use of the land, the land user shall apply for an extension of the term no later than one year ahead of the expiration. Such an application shall be approved except for the land to be reclaimed as required by public interests. Upon approval of the extension, the land user shall enter into a new contract for the granting of the land-use right and pay fees for the granting in accordance with the relevant regulations.

Does this refute the 90% figure?

[-] CubitOom@infosec.pub 1 points 2 days ago

It depends I guess on how one defines the word "own".

In most of the world, a temporary land use grant (even if it is for 70 years) would not be ownership.

[-] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 3 points 2 days ago

This is because you define home ownership as owning the land beneath it and ths defined it differently. Either way, thats a lot of housed people which is the point.

China should just turn communist tomorrow because thats how it works

this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2026
165 points (98.2% liked)

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