chat

this was always the problem with a country calling itself the 'Jewish state', putting the Star of David on their flag, and claiming to represent all Jews - all the while committing horrific atrocities. firstly, they use anti-semitism as a cudgel to silence support for Palestinians and trivialize the term. but there are also a non-trivial amount of people out there who are going to blame all Jews for Israel's actions. Israel then benefits from creating this anti-semitism because more Jews think "maybe it's true I'm not safe here" and either support Israel or decide to move there to further colonize it.

There is something very sick about an ethnostate crying antisemitism. These people have more in common with the Nazis that did genocide against the Jews than the actual Jews. Yet they'll use their suffering as a shield. It's messed up.

Most Jews aren't Zionists.

Zionism is not Judaism.

Anyone who calls you antisemitic immediately and without evidence is probably a Zionist, or confused by Zionists.

Zionists are Fascists, or Fascist Adjacent.

It's entirely intentional on Israel's part that Jewish diaspora are made to feel unsafe and should thus "return home" to fill in all the curiously vacant land they have just waiting to be claimed. So it's two birds being knocked out with one stone.

Pro tip, when someone is actually being antisemitic everyone just says 'wow, that nazi is a real piece of shit'

I've yet to encounter accusations of antisemitism in the wild that wasn't coming from someone thar was also incoherently, unspeakably furious that every country in the middle east with edible hummus hadn't been bathed in nuclear fire yet, or that enough children hadn't been orphaned. A deeply sick culture

I have spent my whole fucking life punching Nazis, sometimes literally (do you know how hard nazis are on your nail polish? It's a real sacrifice.) And every time, there's some dumbass undergrad in the org who conflates support of Palestine with anti-semitism and has to be gently given a visit from cadre.

Israel's continuing fall into mask off Fascism is amazing.

Even 15 years ago you could find many leftists who were, despite many reservations, willing to support a two-state solution with a right of return, and who acknowledged that Israel at least started with some utopian socialist ideals mixed in with the horrifying settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing of local inhabitants. Like, they had the fucking holocaust as a line of moral credit and successive Israeli governments have done everything they possibly can to burn through that goodwill.

I remember when BDS happened I was against it, not because I thought it was anti-semitic but because I thought it was counter-productive (it wasn't, I was wrong). And the sheer volume of rhetoric against anyone who so much as didn't immediately change their entire diet to Max Brenner hot chocolates was horrific. And it just keeps escalating as support for Israel crumbles among ordinary people.

It's a serious problem and a criticism that doesn't get levied at Israel enough. Antisemitism is a serious and rife problem still in the world, but so long as it keeps getting leveraged by a nation (that claims to speak both for an entire ethnicity and religion) that deliberately muddies the language to justify war crimes, the very real issue of antisemitic racism becomes ten-fold harder to address for the sole reason that it's impossible to talk about in widely understood terms.

I think my least favorite aspect of this is being told it is in fact I, the anti-zionist jew, who is the antisemite and self-hating jew because I don't want to support zionist genocide. just makes me see red. I don't know how they justify it to themselves.

I get it. I've seen a lot of dismissal of antisemitism as a serious issue since the conflict started, which has led to some actual very concerning antisemitic garbage making its way into the discourse; thankfully not here of course.

I don't think it's priviledged to be worried about anti-semitism

anti semitism is a personal safety issue and everyone is always entitled to care about their personal safety

They usurped the term and made it exclusively a religious thing, while it used to be about the people that lived in that region in the world and spoke the semitic languages.

Them murdering and labeling palestinians as savage beasts is anti-semitism at its best.

anti-apartheid rap idea:

yo yo yo Zionists be the real antisemites

(but actually though, the idea that Jews have some homeland that's far, far away from Europe while Christians are home wherever they find themselves is blantant antisemitism)

Stop making it about individual people, make it about an entire nation. Best way to do it, IMO.

Israel has excellent propaganda.

Just had this exact discussion in the bulletin thread.

Anti semetism means nothing any more. It's a been used as a weapon for decades now and i think we are at the point where it just doesn't hold weight.

I call it the "boy who cried wolf" effect. There's the old fable of the boy who cries wolf, gets the whole village to come out, he laughs at them, etc. They go back into their homes. He does this so many times they stop believing him. Then he gets mauled to death when a wolf really shows up. Of course that's not how wolves behave, blah blah blah but you get the point.

The jewish community in Graz uninvited the communist party from their holocaust memorial day, because they where against the raising of the israeli flag on the city hall. So many jewish anti zionist communist (bundisten) where killed in the holocaust and also a lot of communists (in germany about 20% of the communist party members ~70,000) where killed in the concentration camps and even before. What disgrace these zionists are.

Reading the comments here are mindblowing. A thread like this would have have never survived on reddit. It would have been a sea of "removed by moderator" And the worthy discussion would not have been had.

Kinda funny how the terms "Semite" "Aryan" and "Caucasian" were all redefined to mean the same bunch of people who are almost genetically indistinguishable from each other (and not the best exemplars of any of the three names)

we need MORE SILLY NAMES FOR WHITE PEOPLE

On that video of the Likud government person interviewed on RT threatening the Russians, he calls Hamas Nazis. Which I find the craziest use of the word. I guess it truly is anyone against Israel is going to be labeled not just antisemitic, but a Nazi.

"muh anti-isreal = antisemetism!!111!!1"

Funny because the way isntreal has treated the indigenous arab semetic minority ethnic groups which were living on the Palestinian land they stole would make the nazis and americans nod in approval. The conflation of Israel with Judaism and the normalization of the genocide which was intentionally carried out to bring it into existence, has been one of the most successful western liberal psyops as of late.

I feel this so much

It wasn't until about a week into this that I even began to process what had happened the week or 2 prior, when the entirety of Canadian parliament gave a standing ovation to a literal nazi SS officer as a "Ukrainian resistance fighter against the Soviets"

The Jewish side of my family has a Ukrainian side and family members whose names I'll never know were murdered in the Holocaust no different than what the Palestinians are being subjected to today and it wasn’t until after that first week that I really thought about how that specific SS officer was provably personally responsible for the murder of my family and that he got to live a long comfortable life without ever paying for what he did

It was in that moment of clarity that I thought, "Oh, this must be what Norman Finkelstein feels like all the time" I bet it's similar for Palestinians who have to see the faces of people on TV who are personally responsible for murdering their family members only it must be worse because they know the victims personally and the monsters they see on TV are in charge of everything, not just being honored for a day like that nazi

Words fail to describe my sorrow and rage

You probably already knew this, but there's a definition of antisemitism that has a noted focus on criticism of Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_definition_of_antisemitism

"Never again," not in the world peace kind of way but the how "you'll never do this again to me", tragic making of an angry bully story, kind of way.