top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 143 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (47 children)

The whole fruit/vegetable controversy only comes because we're trying to use two different domains of terms interchangeably: botanical terms and culinary terms.

Tomatoes (and squash, and pumpkins (which, side note, are a type of squash), and cucumbers) are botanically fruits, but culinarily they're most commonly used as vegetables because they tend to be less sweet, particularly when raw. Mushrooms are botanically...well, I guess they're botanically "n/a", as they're not a part of the plantae kingdom, but whatever--they're typically considered botanical, so they're "botanically" fungi, but culinarily they're most commonly used as vegetables (or, interestingly, as meat replacements).

We get into the same linguistic confusion when we start throwing around "peanuts aren't nuts, they're legumes!"--botanically, yes, peanuts are legumes, but culinarily they're most commonly used as nuts. See also: "green beans" are botanically pods, not beans, but we use them culinarily as vegetables; and many "berries" are botanically something else but we use them culinarily as berries; meaning they're often left whole, mixed with other berries in the same dish, and go well with cream in cold summer desserts.

The whole thing is a misguided exercise in pedantry; "technically burritos aren't sandwiches, they're meat-sacks!" They're both, and we instinctively understand that trying to compare the two terms is silly because "sandwich" is a culinary term and "sack" is not.

Another funny part of this is that pedants are trying to say that tomatoes are (botanically) fruits and not vegetables, but the closest thing to a definition we have for "vegetable" botanically is "literally all plant life and maybe also some fungi," so tomatoes are clearly both fruit and vegetable botanically. Plus, they're culinarily used as vegetables, but can also be used as fruits in some cakes, pies, sorbets, and so forth (and isn't ketchup just a tomato smoothie?), so tomatoes are clearly both fruit and vegetable in culinary terms as well.

edit: Someone who actually knows what they're talking about (an ecologist) has corrected my botanical definition of "vegetable." Actually, they're “edible parts of a plant which are not fruit.” Which means that tomatoes are explicitly excluded as vegetables, being botanically a fruit. I don't think that ruins my overall point in any way, though.

  • source
  • hideshow 47 child comments
  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    good post, sounds like a copypasta

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Great post, with one caveat

    the closest thing to a definition we have for "vegetable" botanically is "literally all plant life and maybe also some fungi,"

    I got my degree in Ecology and Evolution, and we always used a similar working definition but it was "edible parts of a plant which are not fruit." So basically botanically, stems, roots, leaves, flowers, and all subvarieties of those are vegetables. Fruits are fruits. Fungi are fungi.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • load more comments (4 replies)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    It is a bit weird that we use some fruits as "vegetables", like tomatoes and cucumbers. But, other fruits like mango or raspberry are so different from your typical "culinary vegetable" that you have to be very careful in how you use it in a savoury dish. There isn't the same crossover for other edible plants. For example, I can't think of any tuber that could sneak into a fruit salad unnoticed.

    I guess it comes down to there being a lot more variety among fruits than other edible plant parts. Plus, humans have been tweaking edible plants for millennia. So, who knows, maybe the original cucumber was more "fruity", but has been tuned over the years to be more "saladey".

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • load more comments (9 replies)
  • load more comments (27 replies)
    [+] 83 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
    [–] 53 points 1 year ago

    The true misconception is that there are scientific definitions and culinary definitions. No the culinary definitions don't fit their scientific category. They're not intended to.

  • source
  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Strawberries, blackberries, mulberries, and raspberries are not berries.

    Bananas, aubergine (eggplants), oranges and grapes are berries.

    Dangleberries aren't real berries either.

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [+] 69 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • load more comments (3 replies)
    [–] 38 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    They’re (mushrooms) also constantly listed on American menus as a “protein” option despite a dire lack of the stuff

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Hmm, is it really that little? The stats look devastating, like e.g. 3 grams per 100 grams, but mushrooms also consist out of 90+ grams of water.

    For example, the button mushroom has:
    100 g total - 91.8 g water - 1.7 g fiber = 6.5g nutrients
    2.89 g protein / 6.5 g nutrients = 44.4% protein

    Comparing that to e.g. canned black beans:
    100 g total - 70.8 g water - 6.69 g fiber = 22.51 g nutrients
    6.91 g protein / 22.51 g nutrients = 30.9% protein

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • load more comments (4 replies)
  • load more comments (2 replies)
    [–] 34 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    That's because Vegetable is not a Botanical Term. It is a culinary term. So, Tomatoes are both fruit and vegetable.

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago

    "Fruiting bodies," even

  • source
  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Fungi only got its own kingdom in 1969, before that they were a phylum in Plantae. There are tons of people still around who learned "mushrooms are plants" in school, so it's not surprising downstream vocabulary hasn't caught up.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don't think I've ever considered a mushroom a vegetable, they're just mushrooms

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (3 replies)
    [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah but a mushroom's such a fungi to be with.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Big Mushroom is going to take out OP, Boeing-style.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Actually, "mushrooms are technically meat" is a new hill I'd like to die on. Mushrooms have animal cells, ergo, definitely not a vegetable.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    They don't, they're a distinct third thing with a distinct third type of cells

    They are, however, more closely related to us animals than they are to plants. As in, our last common ancestor is less far back.

    Also, unrelated to your comment, but related to the post: vegetable isn't a botanical term, but a culinary term. So, there's no bioligical basis for vegetable in the first place, so there's no issue with counting mushrooms among them. Sure, it's a bit inconvenient that the word 'fruit' is both a culinary and a botanical term in English, and there's overlap to it, but that doesn't mean it's somehow illogical that some things are culinarilu fruits but not botanically, and vice versa.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (3 replies)
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Let's not forget that apples, strawberries and cashews are pseudofruits, just like the produce of my labor!

  • source
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Always dismiss those people who talk about how tomatoes are fruits as nerds. The category "vegetable" in the kitchen usually refers to more savory plants, not that what part of the fruit it is. Also if you're still one of those "um, ackchually, tomatoes are fruits" kind of people, then eat tomatoes like apples. Maybe even some chili peppers too, they're berries.

  • source
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's just interesting that there's a distinction between botanical and culinary classification. Once you realise that there are two different systems that don't necessarily need to completely agree then it's not a big deal.

    ...also, what exactly is wrong with taking a bite out of a tomato like an apple? They're delicious.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Vegetables aren't even a thing botanically, they're basically "plant stuff that isn't fruit", except when it is.

    Botanically speaking, vegetables can be roots (carrots, beets), stems (celery, asparagus), leaves (spinach, lettuce), flowers (broccoli, cauliflower) seeds (peas, beans), and of course fruits that we treat as savory (tomatoes, peppers, eggplants).

    And then on the opposite side you have things we call fruits that botanically speaking aren't. Rhubarb is a stem, strawberries are aggregate accessory fruits where the fleshy part we eat is actually swollen stem tissue, and those little "seeds" on the outside are the real fruits of the plant. Figs are not simple fruits, they're inverted flower clusters where the "fruit" is actually a hollow stem containing many tiny real fruits inside.

    Even apples and pears aren't true fruits botanically, they're accessory fruits where much of what we eat comes from the flower's receptacle rather than just the ovary.

    So yeah the botanical vs. culinary divide works both ways. Our everyday food categories are really more about taste, texture, and how we use foods rather than plant biology.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    My driving instructor ate tomatoes like apples, got a whole wooden crate of them in the morning and a shaker of salt, I probably could've mowed down a few pedestrians as long as that man had his tomatoes.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (5 replies)
    [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Sure, but they are fun guys!

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (3 replies)
    [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Mushrooms are obviously fruit

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments (2 replies)
    [+] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    and slathering it on a well done steak

    Burn the heretic!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    TBF, if your steak is well done, you're probably gonna need some sauce since half the flavor has been cooked out of it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My family always got well done at restaurants. Told me medium rare is for werewolves. No surprise they dumped brown sauce on it. My God what a revelation when I got medium the 1st time.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    "Are red pandas carnivores or herbivores?" "They eat like 80% bamboo, so herbivores." "Wrong! They are taxonomically in the order carnivora, making them carnivores! Please ignore that carnivore also just means meat eater and herbivore isn't even a taxonomic clade. People only ever talk to me to get mad at this switching between casual and scientific definitions, I am nothing without it."

  • source
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    I kinda don't think they care

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Fruits vs vegetables is an arbitrary, near-meaningless distinction. See here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=E8mcTIEVKUU

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments (2 replies)
    load more comments
    view more: next ›