Ask Lemmy

Friends don't let friends support fascists.

You gotta land somewhere on the spectrum of stupid-to-evil to be a Trump (or any of the new lumps of shit that have surfaced in Trump's wake) supporter, and no point on the spectrum meets the standard for the kind of person I'd invest the time and effort needed to build a friendship.

Discovering that a current friend is that stupid/evil would reveal I misjudged that person previously and spell the end of that relationship. I can't fix stupid, and I won't tolerate evil.

That would be a deal breaker. Someone who would vote for folk who want me dead is not a friend, and it's not something I would pretend not to hear.

It raises major questions about their ability to reason, absorb information, their morals and level of awareness about the world. And just personality. It's difficult for me to imagine how people listen to that guy lie and ramble while being a petty, vindictive self-absorbed prick to everyone around him, and think "Yeah! This is someone I'd put in charge".

It's a values thing.

Trump and those like him victimize my friends, are massive bigots, and the whole christofascist thing is just inherently fucked up.

Maybe there are Trump voters that aren't those things, but that just means they're fine with that shit

I wouldn't be friends with someone like that

If they loved any of my least favorite politicians, we'd probably not be friends for much longer - they're "least favorite" for a reason, after all. Also loving a political figure is completely bonkers. People who are infinitely less passionate than that will still have so strong beliefs you'll never really (be allowed to) challenge them.

People are hard to persuade with just facts and logic. That's even when politics aren't involved ruining whatever tiny chance there was in the first place. Basically, everybody thinking they'd go Full Diplomat and convert the guy is 100% bullshitting themselves.

Also don't fuck with politics at work. Managing idiots is a crucial skill in every job, being right is not the same as "winning" an argument, and even if you "win" there could be reprisals. It's not right, but that's the way the world is.

I would have 1 less friend.

Are you sure they're your friend and not just someone you have to work with?

Personally, I don't consider fascists my friends.

... why exactly are they my friend if they're trying to murder my other friends? I don't get along too well with people who want to do that.

My grandmother used to say: never talk about religion or politics with coworkers. Both topics get into personal beliefs that can make a professional relationship difficult.

For an actual friend, I would try to understand why they're into the politician. People have lots of reasons for why they vote.

My sister is a sweetheart who loves animals, nature, people, and has given so much of her time and money to take care of our mother.

She voted Trump and it seems like she would do it again. Why?

She's a fundamentalist evangelical Christian. You have to understand the Christian slant if you're setting out to understand Trump voters. It's not the only lens to see the MAGA phenomenon through, but it's a big one.

Why are those two tied together so tightly, even though it's glaringly obvious that Trump isn't a Christian himself and doesn't espouse their values? He gave them all the things they wanted. And he'll keep doing it.

You'll find plenty of other people backing Trump as well, and many will be total assholes and pond scum. The liberal tears crowd, the trolls. Probably the ones many commenting here are talking about. But I suspect these types are only the vocal minority and it's people like my sister who are a much more silent majority. They are beloved people in their communities, they are not the monsters you would make them out to be. It takes an open mind to understand their position. Make sure you're ready to explore and understand without judgement, or else you might as well just write them off and find something more productive to use your time with.

Nothing. I say nothing.

Nothing. I'd rather not discuss it. I'm not looking to change their mind and I'm not looking to change mine.

If it's just a politician I don't like, it would be a good opportunity to talk about it and maybe one/both of us can learn something new. I usually trust that I'm friends with someone for a reason, and while we might not change our minds, it would be a good chance to learn about priorities / needs / ideas.

If it's my LEAST FAVOURITE, then we might not be as compatible as I thought.

The politicians that I hate would like me dead or completely mentally subjugated/repressed (I'm trans, autistic, and part of some other groups, also not exactly rolling in cash 😄 ^.^). If I found out one of my friends supported someone like that they would cease being a friend, to put it mildly.

Most of my friends are also trans or have other reasons that fascists would treat them similarly to how they would me, so it's extremely unlikely they would support those types :)

The best answer I think I can come up with is: Oh, wow, I liked you, but if you want me dead I think you must not really be a good person after all.

You're not going to change their mind, so the best you can do is make them feel guilty for supporting someone who whishes harm on so many groups he'll not even know which of those groups you are (and you might not be in any of those groups, he doesn't need to know).

My least favorite politicians literally want me to not exist. They want me erased, exterminated, gone. It's extraordinarily unlikely for me to end up friends with someone who would vote for that sort of person to begin with. Given my volitile political position, this question just feels goofy to me. People I consider friends are a rarefied order, a small and select group. I would be shaken to my core to find out that one of them felt this way. It would destroy my sense of reality and grasp of the world. I'd wonder if I was schizophrenic. But I really don't think that's going to happen. People aren't my friends if they don't support my rights, nevertheless my existence.

If they're already your friend, then you obviously like each other enough to have gotten along for however long it's been without talking about politics. This to me indicates that probably neither of you feels strongly enough about politics to have it be an issue unless one of you starts pressing it. I acknowledge that I may be oversimplifying your question.

As someone who tries to rationalize and come up with arguments for multiple family members who would vote for Trump even if I would consider them quite smart from day to day, I will tell you that having convincing arguments won't get you far.

There is some fundamental differences in thinking between myself and conservatives. For example: Someone must lose in another for another to win.

The thinking is so black and white and simplistic most of the time. They use Econ 101 to prove their theories, pretending that's how the world works and refuse to listen to any realistic nuance.

When you point out a contradiction, they say, "Oh, that's an outlier" "Oh, I'll look into it" "Oh, let's move onto something else". I don't discuss it much anymore, but I try really hard to listen and make arguments that acknowledge their beliefs while presenting my own.

If you can keep level-headed, other more progressive relatives of mine have recommended/gifted readings that might be able to broaden the horizons of conservatives.

If it's in my country: "Huh, okay"

If it's in the US: "What the fuck is wrong with you".

These comments make me feel a lot better about the friends I've lost to Trumpism. I don't understand how people I know can just overlook that.

If it was simply a difference of political opinion and they supported some run of the mill politician who's shit but not like fascist level shit then it wouldn't be relationship ending. Politicians are mostly fucked and not worth losing relationships over.

If it was an overt piece of shit fascist then that would be a different story. Usually people who support fascists become quite radicalised. Shit is culty af. And if this friend did not have a problem with overt prejudice and genocidal attitudes then that would be relationship ending for me.

I cannot be friends with DeSantis supporters. Even moreso since I live in a major city in a US state where, despite being a swing state, DeSantis' ideas have proven a losing position (Doug Mastriano pledged to make PA "the Florida of the North." That's how the Democratic nominee won that year.)

I would ask why. Is the reason personal? Moral? Based on their achievements? I'll put it this way. I was watching this story (not the first time it was brought up) which takes place in a town that really loved Mussolini. That much didn't bother me, it's circumstantial and it happens, it was how they expressed it that set me off, by setting out to lethally betray the one person in town who was a critic of Mussolini by killing his family. Technically I'd argue they're indirect victims of the Nazi Italy death toll. If someone has no problem with me, I don't feel as averse, but this is rarely the case anyways.

I personally would say: "interesting, Why's that?" And listen to what they have to say about it.

I ask myself the following: "does this person treat me well? Do they treat others well?" If yes is the answer to both questions, then I just move on. Who cares if they would vote a different way than you in an election they can't vote in anyway?

"You're a fucking Nazi" probably

I tell them exactly what I think

at this point I simply refer to them as "cooked" and refuse to further engage until they stop blindly reading cooker shit and rejoin reality, then we will talk.

literally told my mum that today and no regrets. no more pussyfooting around extremists

"Let's not talk politics any more. What game are you playing at the moment?"