/0 Governance

Acknowledged governance topic opened by https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/flatworm7591

This is a simple majority vote. The current tally is as follows:

• For: (4), (3), (1), (7)
• Against:
• Local Community: +0.9
• Outsider sentiment: Supportive
• Total: +15.9
• Percentage: 100.00%

This vote will complete in 2 days

Reminder that this is a pilot process and results of voting are not set in stone.

If I have to choose between this user and federation with db0 I would side with db0.

However I must comment frankly that moving immediately to defederation over a thread in which the subject - @[email protected] - has never been the subject of db0 moderation action (with over 4k combined comments and posts over 6 months) in some attempt to strongarm me into action is, at minimum, distasteful.

Trust me, I'm a card carrying Communist party member. I do not care for conservative views at all. But I did not create The Lemmy Club to be a partisan instance - but a general instance to replace reddit. I do of course have limits, however in reviewing the posting history of @[email protected] I do not find anything worthy of banning. I do not like some of the sources they post. But they also post non-conservative stories and sources as well and generally conduct themselves in a reasonable manner in all posts and comments. They do not appear to me to be some wild-MAGA idiot, although they do seem to be conservative. They post unfavorable things about Trump fairly often. The fact that it has come to this is to me, a bit bizarre.

Thanks for having this open to outside comments, though.

I don't let Nazis/Fascists into anywhere that I frequent. Defederate.

I read the comments here, starting from the perspective that merely being a "conservative" was no reason for defederation (I have a 1990s idea of what the word "conservative" means), then it turns out we're talking about people posting Nazi shit at will and it staying up, which definitelly justifies defederation and the "Nazi bar" label, but apparently (from his own participation here) the Admin of the instance is willing to ban the Nazi types and possibly the groups in that instance which were ok with Nazi posts.

If the admin does this, then I'm against defederation, if not then I'm in favour of defederation. Sadly I can't encode such a view in just a Yay or Nay metric (i.e. upvote/downvote), hence I will neither upvote nor downvote and instead am leaving my rationale here as a post.

Defederate.

Tolerance of intolerance isn’t good.

Defederate. Zero tolerance for Nazis.

Defederate.

I understand why the owner of the instance finds our reaction distasteful, but unfortunately, we have no choice but to defederate from an instance whose largest community is run by this individual.

This is a governance community, meant for decisions (such as, should we be federated with a specific instance), not a diplomacy community. We don't vote on "should we ask the owner of this instance to actually moderate in ways we find tolerable"? The unfortunate truth here is that instance is currently mostly this kind of garbage, so until it isn't, defederation.

(Also I spent an hour trawling this individual's comments to make sure of my opinion because I have ADHD and can't stop myself, and while my normal reaction is surgical, this is too conveniently a case where every individual involved could have been acting in bad faith. Better to be thorough here than not.)

For a culture of tolerance to flourish then the intolerant must be purged. I love freedom of speech but Nazis should be given no quarter for their ideologies to metastasize into the rest of the fediverse.

We don't abide by no Nazis. Defederate. Take away their bullhorn.

I'm in vote of a temporary defederation, until they address the problem. This shit is not okay, and is not a matter of just "different opinions".

yeah, i don't want our bar connected to a nazi bar

Defederate until the problem is solved.

I'm for temporary defederation if the admin does not react to an ultimatum to clean house. Being federated means increasing the reach of their message, and the message is hate. If Xitter was worth banning, then this is too.

The admin seems caught in the tolerance paradoxon, and doesn't realize that his inaction is an indirect endorsement of the content he's hosting. Seems to be too nice for his own good, maybe a warning cannon salvo is in order.

Don’t recall seeing them when scrolling through All so I wouldn’t miss them if we defederated.

I would have preferred a vote first to see if we should just ban those comms, or defederate. If we ban those comms and the right-wingers, we can take a more "surgical" approach. Personally I will vote against, in favour or B&B (block & ban). But I am open to be convinced otherwise if the problem is worse than I thought.

Edit: After the revelation that there's literal neonazis posting neonazi videos in there already, I switch my vote to defed.

Defederate. If they get better, they can have a second chance. If they don't, no skin off my balls.

Voting against defederation. I’d prefer we have a clear protocol of escalation: let people block those communities, if it gets egregious and we start seeing hex style brigading or continuous support for bans, consider an instance wide community ban, then go for full defederation

Haven't seen enough of it on main to warrant hair-trigger actions IMO

“Keep a weather eye and steady as she goes”

never heard of the instance before, never seen any of their content or posting. If it's problematic by all means, defederate them, but then i would also think the instance admin would ban them as well.

Otherwise maybe we should watch with apprehension until something happens?

The nazi bar problem is a real problem, but so much as the nazi bar problem is real, there is also the anti-nazi bar. The bar that invents and creates nazis, just to kick them out of the bar, to ensure there are no nazis. It's not really an easy problem to solve.

i'd be more concerned if they were doing the hexbear thing where they started infiltrating other instances and causing problems there. Personally, don't really care if they exist in a vacuum though. Assuming they don't cause any problems.

I think temporary defederation is sensible.

Sure, you dbzer0 admins could play whack-a-mole with the right-wingers attracted to that instance, and your users could play it too... but come on, too much effort. Specially because I expect your users to gravitate heavily towards anarchism, so this sort of "democracy doesn't work!" muppet will likely rub them off the wrong way.

Also, didn't dbzer0 ban Twitter links? I remember you guys were voting on something like this. If you did, then defederating thelemmy.club is even more sensible, as it's consistent with previous decisions.

(Just my two cents. I'm not from this instance, I don't even know if I can vote [I probably can't].)

I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say defed them all!

I don't think this is a Nazi bar problem just yet. I have not really seen any heinous comment on Lemmy so far and I spend too much time on here. We can always defederate later if this instance gets out of hand.

Voting against defederation.

If I understand federation in lemmy correctly, we wouldn't see comments and posts from the users from lemmy.club in communities on other instances too, right?

I'm absolutely in favour of doing something about it, but defederation as a first step seems to be a bit too much, even if it is temporary.

Having not actually run into any of the mentioned nazi content myself, I don't feel personally invested in defederation.

I personally prefer for the nazis to be clustered together in one corner so that it's easy to mute or block them without their knowledge, and I do have some apprehension against defederating this early and causing them to scatter into wind on other instances.

If any of those comms they're moderating actually have nazi content, it should be an easy decision to cut them lose since we have a vested interest in keeping that shit off our servers, but if the fear is simply that the right-lean of the comms may create a place for nazis to gather then I might be on the side of waiting for signs of infection before amputation.